The Department of Transportation and the Consumer Financial Projection Bureau are turning their attention to airline and credit card reward programs — you know, when you get points for miles.

On Thursday, the two government agencies held a hearing aimed at increasing transparency about these programs, such as how much points are worth. To learn more about these efforts and how they could help consumers, “Marketplace Morning Report” host David Brancaccio spoke with Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. The following is an edited transcript of their conversation.

David Brancaccio: I know it can be annoying when an airline frequent flyer or a credit card changes the rules for a loyalty program. But aren’t these just perks easy come, easy go?

Pete Buttigieg: Well, I think they’re not just perks; they’re increasingly something we think of as part of our savings. When you’re getting ready for a vacation, you save up your money for that, and you may also save up your miles or save up your points for that. So, the difference — of course — is unlike the money in your bank account, there’s a company that can unilaterally decide to change what those points or miles are worth. And we want to make sure that like anything else of value in our economy, any transactions and any advertising about this is fair, truthful and transparent. You know, we have a responsibility as a department to look out for any unfair and deceptive practices in terms of how airlines market their flights. We’re increasingly realizing that part of that means making sure we understand what’s going on with these points and miles programs.

Brancaccio: I want to get back to the transparency, but what are some of the complaints your team and the team over at the CFPB are looking into?

Buttigieg: Well, one issue we’re concerned about is these devaluations. You think the points are worth a certain amount, and then that changes. And that’s especially important if you make a decision, like a decision to book a ticket with a higher airfare or to sign up for a credit card with a high annual fee or a higher APR because you think in return you’re getting a certain value in terms of points. If they change that on you, it’s something that we need to look at.

Another issue that we’re seeing is a confusion over what the points are actually worth. It’s pretty rare for an airline to publish what they say the sort of dollar valuation of a mile or point is, but in some cases, we see that they have a certain implied value in terms of the flights you can get — or you can even use it to buy a sandwich on board — but then a completely different value if they’re offering to sell those points back to you. We even see transaction fees when you’re trying to transfer points that are sometimes more than the total value of the points you’re transferring. Those are the kinds of things we want to have a clearer look at and get a real understanding of to make sure that customers and passengers are being treated fairly.

Brancaccio: It’s interesting, because you can almost figure out what the currency is worth, right? And then if it’s variable, depending on the situation, it will be at least nice to know that it’s variable …

Buttigieg: Yeah, think of it this way: You know, you go through the in-flight magazine, it says you can buy a thing of chips for $5 or 500 miles. That’s telling you they think a mile is worth a cent. But later on when they offer to sell you 3,000 miles so you can go over the top and get that ticket you’re hoping to get, they’re offering it for five or 10 times that. Those are the kinds of things we want to run down, make sure we have an understanding of and discuss whether that’s fair.

Brancaccio: So, transparency — rules should be clear. I mean, some worry that that could be lost in fine print only a lawyer could love but OK, our duty would be to read through. You said equitable, I think. What did you have in mind?

Buttigieg: We need to make sure that you know what you’re paying for and that customers are treated fairly. Again, this is especially important because often the design of these points programs mean that you’re not picking the product with the lowest price, whether we’re talking about a credit card fee or an airfare. You will consciously choose something that costs more because of the value you feel like you’re getting with the points that come along with that. That means these points are something of real economic value and, like anything with real economic value, we need to make sure that any transactions around that are fair and aboveboard.

Brancaccio: Absent legislation, I guess, do you and/or the CFPB have power beyond holding hearings to force transparency and fairness?

Buttigieg: We do have a lot of authority here and responsibility to address unfair or deceptive practices in airlines. And we’re teaming up with CFPB because of course, they have a lot of authority as it relates to financial firms and credit card companies. Now, we’re not coming into this with any preconceived conclusions. We haven’t decided on a rule or anything like that. But we do hear enough from passengers and customers about this that we’ve come to realize that in the same way that we have rules around refunds or other parts of the passenger experience, we need to be taking a look at this too.

Brancaccio: Let me ask you about Baltimore in these last two minutes here. Secretary Buttigieg, your department came up with $60 million in emergency highway funds to deal with the bridge collapse in Baltimore. But it could cost not millions, but billions. Who’s going to pay to right that mess?

Buttigieg: President Biden committed that the federal government will be there to cover the cost that the people of Maryland and Baltimore need to get a new bridge and to get back to normal. But to be clear, there have been many cases where our emergency relief account has been replenished with recoveries from insurance or litigation. Obviously, if any private party is held liable, that could come back to the taxpayer. It’s just that we can’t wait for that because the people of Baltimore need help getting back to normal now. The Army Corps of Engineering is doing an extraordinary job getting that channel back open. We expect to have that port back up and running and all of those port workers back on the job by the end of May. But simultaneously, there’s the bigger, longer and more expensive project of getting a new bridge. That’s already underway too, and we’re going to be there as the president promised, every step of the way.

Brancaccio: And you’re OK with the pace of coming up with the funding? I think you’ve mentioned before when the I-35 Bridge fell down in Minnesota those years ago, Congress moved pretty quickly. I think it was days.

Buttigieg: That’s right. Congress acted within about a week in the Minnesota case. We’d love to see quick action here too to top up our emergency relief funds, but we are nowhere near running out of cash in that account to take care of the immediate needs.