Financially Inclined December 1, 2023 Transcript

Note: Marketplace podcasts are meant to be heard, with emphasis, tone and audio elements a transcript can’t capture. Transcripts are generated using a combination of automated software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting it.

Yanely Espinal: What’s up, everybody? I’m Yanely Espinal and welcome to Financially Inclined from Marketplace. We’re sharing money lessons for living life your own way. When people talk about starting their first job, it sounds kind of scary. Like recent college grads who have a hard time getting into the workforce. And that can be really discouraging. But luckily, we have Amir Henley with us today to help us understand how to stand out when you’re applying for your first job. Amir is in his early 20s and he already broke into the corporate world as a social media manager. He also runs his own TikTok, where he posts about corporate culture and helps us understand it. Now, when we talk about corporate culture, it could mean a big famous corporation, but it could also be a smaller company or organization. And sometimes even a nonprofit or school can feel like a corporate environment. It’s all about the structure of the workplace and the kind of rules that they put in place, like a strict dress code or a corporate type of hierarchy with managers and mid-level managers and that kind of thing. Now, I know it sounds like a lot to take in, but Amir’s going to help us make sense of it all. So let’s get into it.

Yanely: I just was wondering, like, how did you get into corporate work, into the corporate path? And then what was it like once you were in a corporate job versus like your expectations for what it would be like?

Amir Henley: My first corporate job came when I was in college, where I was the youngest person at my job. Most of my team members were like twice my age, and in the country club that I was working at, they did not have a strong social media presence. So I kept telling my manager, like, “Oo, I’ll help take pictures,” or “I took pictures of the food,” or “I created this video of the chef!” And I would always share my content with them. And I just started creating so much content for them, they just like, “You know what, we want to hire you as our marketing manager.” And that was my first start to I was say, you know, the corporate world and doing something that I love.

Yanely: That is amazing. That is amazing. You know, the people that are listening to this or watching this might be interested in corporate work, but especially if you’re younger, you might be trying to figure it out like, is corporate something that I would be interested in? And they might not know. What do you tend to tell them about what to expect? How do you talk about corporate culture with them?

Amir: I realized that a lot of my followers, most of my followers are from 18 to 24. And I was like, wow, a lot of these teens have not even had a job yet, and their first experience with what I’m sharing with them. So I’m hoping I’m giving, you know, an authentic, you know, experience of how the workforce is. So before joining the corporate world, I was actually very terrified of the corporate world. I thought of it as boring. I thought of it as 9 to 5. I thought of that as robot. For the teens watching this, I’m sure you’ve seen the SpongeBob episode where Squidward is just miserable, and he just like, going through his life, he’s like going through the motions. And that’s how I always thought about corporate world. But I was surprisingly shocked with the previous job that I had, and I was so shocked about the team culture: how friendly everyone was, how the company really took, you know, concern about my mental health and making sure I had job satisfaction. If you are a younger person entering the workforce, what do you want the company to look like? What do you want your team to look like? Do you want it to be a diverse team? Do you want to be led by by majority women? Do you want, you know, the people to look like you? Do you want it to be LGBT-friendly? So I’ve always done my research before applying the jobs and going in interviews. What the mission statement is, what their values are. So a lot of searches on the Internet like Fishbowl, Glassdoor, Indeed, LinkedIn — a lot of them have reviews for previous positions or the company in general. So you’ll see a lot of the time where it’s like, “oh, you know, the pay was really good, but I was overworked,” or “I was doing four jobs in one,” or “oh, you know, they didn’t pay me well, but they were very flexible with my schedule and I was able to work from home, so I was willing to take a pay cut.” Those are all all the things that…

Yanely: Right.

Amir: …they’re not going to tell you, but the information is out there. I promise you, if the company is big enough, you can find it, you know.

Yanely: So that can definitely help you with choosing, you know, companies that you want or might want to apply for a job. But what about the actual interview part? How do you recommend that people prepare for an interview for a corporate position or corporate job?

Amir: I treat the job description as like an acting role, and the job description is my script. So I’m like reading my script like, okay, this is what my job, my, my daily tasks are going to be. This, these are the skills they want me to possess. This is the experience. So I’m already planning the questions that they’re going to ask me: Why do you want to work for this company? What skills do you possess that’ll make you qualified for this position? Name a time where you had to deal with a conflict at work. These are all things that you are going to want to have prepared and already have a story, something like that. Now, a little tidbit. Like I said, I’m a research guy, so I like to do my research. I’m on there. I always look up the brand colors of the company, and I wear the brand colors to the interview. So, for example, and it sounds crazy, but it really does work. Like, listen, for the previous time I had, their brand colors was blue and gray. So I wore a blue blazer, a gray tie. And when I tell you that the hiring manager was like, “Oh, I love your blazer. I love the…” Thank you, thank you. I wonder why. It’s because they’re in their head, they’re already picturing me part of the company because I’m wearing company colors.

Yanely: So talk to us about things like a cover letter or preparing a resumé. You know, like, do you feel like those things are still super relevant today, or is it okay to go like fully digital and just send links to things?

Amir: I do think it depends on the job. So for me, social media, my digital portfolio are the platforms I’ve worked on recently, the social media pages. So yes, that sense a digital portfolio is very important. I’ve had so many people ask me to review their resume and then I read it, and it’s either two pages long, it got references on it, and I’m just like, “Girl, why is the resumé so long? Why do you have these references? Why do you have this unnecessary junk?” I believe that the average hiring manager only looks at a resume for about 3 to 5 seconds. So it is very important that you make a strong first impression with that resume. Take out all the unnecessary jargon. You know, we don’t want to know you, you walked your dog when you were seven if you’re going for an IT job. You know, stuff like that is not like that is not important. And a lot of the time when I’m working with younger people, they’re like, “Well, I don’t have much experience,” and they can’t get the job because they don’t have experience and they can’t get experience because they don’t have the job. And I understand that. And that is where the selling yourself comes in the part. You know, what extracurricular activities have you done? Have you been going for more, um, have you been doing training? Have you gotten any certificates or awards? What else have you done that’s going to make you qualified for the position? Because it is a very hard cycle to get out of – experience, no, no work experience, no job, no work experience, no job. You know, you got to break that cycle, very early on. Why you? Why? You have to prove to the employer why you are more qualified than the person next to you and to the person to the behind you. The cover letter is also very important as well.

Yanely: Yeah.

Amir: When there’s a hundred applicants and 50 of those applicants didn’t submit a cover letter and then 50 did. Okay, now we’re looking at just the 50 who did. And then from there we have a digital portfolio. I love this experience, or oh, the LinkedIn profile is clean and neat. So there’s always things that you could be doing to set yourself apart.

Yanely: What would you say is like a bulleted list of everything that you need to apply for that job? Like things that you must have.

Amir: You have to be passionate about the role that you are applying for. If your goal is, you know, just a monetary gain, and you have no true passion for the duties that you will be responsible for or the company culture, you will not be happy. So actually finding something that you’re going to be passionate to do every day, like you’re going to wake up and say, “Oh my gosh, like, I get to go to work,” instead of, “Ugh, I have to go to work.”

Yanely: “ugh, I have to…”

Amir: Understand that that’s not fun for anyone. And do your research on the company. How big is the company? How small is a company? Is it a hybrid? Will you be able to work remote? Will it be all in the office? Who will you be reporting to? Do you have multiple people to report to, or is it one person you’re reporting to? How many people are on your team? Where do you fit in on that spectrum? Definitely make sure that you have the skills necessary to fulfill the job, because a lot of people, I feel like, you know, are fake it ’til you make it, and they get into a job that they’re not qualified for and it doesn’t work out in their favor. Be honest, be authentic, be transparent. If there’s something that you need additional training or help with, be honest in that interview process, and I’m sure if they like you, they will they will be willing to work with you. Don’t lie, because you’ll be found out. And then it makes it makes your life harder.

Yanely: One of the big things I remember, I was always told over and over again is you have to stay at a job for a certain period of time because if you leave too soon, then it looks bad on your resume. Oh, but if you stay too long, well then you might not be job hopping in a way that helps you to get a better pay raise at a different company. So how long should they be staying at a job, and how do they know how to make that choice?

Amir: I feel like, you know if you’re going to stay at a job for longer than a year after the three months mark. Now my mom is someone, she had been at the same job for over 15 years. She probably worked out, you know, three levels of the corporate ladder. And she was always conditioned to just be a worker bee. And I feel like a big difference about Gen Z is that they are able to clearly set boundaries. They are prioritizing their mental health. Yes, a paycheck is amazing and a paycheck is necessary…

Yanely: Right.

Amir: But so is your mental health. So is burnout. No one wants to stay at a job where you’re making, you know, another company’s objectives a reality, and you go home every day upset or miserable. And I feel like that since so many of people who are in the Gen Z have seen their parents, you know, burn out, come home upset and how that has negatively impacted even maybe a family dynamic or just a relationship dynamic in general. They don’t want that for themselves. And I think Gen Z is, you know, transitioning the power back into the employee and not just the employer, which I commend and I love. Because, yes, if you have so much, so much to do in one day and your boss asks to schedule a meeting during your break time, where you supposed to like decompress and lunch, and you are able to clearly communicate: “Hey, can we’re schedule to tomorrow? I have too much on my plate.” Now that is someone who I want on my team, because that is bold but it’s not disrespect. Because to me that saying, you don’t want to burn out, you’re here for the long run. Absolutely.

Yanely: So if you hit that 90 day period and you like it, that’s easy. Stay until you feel comfortable or you want to move up or out. But if you’re not so sure, how would you recommend handling that?

Amir: I would never recommend leaving a job until you have another one set up. And that is just my opinion. You know, when you’re going on jobs, it’s like dating. You know, date around, keep your options open. When you’re married to a job, when you find that soulmate, you’ll know that this job is somewhere you’re supposed to be long term. If it’s a casual thing, and it’s not working out after that 90 day mark, you know it’s not going to work out the next 90 days or the 90 days after that. You know what I’m saying? It’s like dating. So date around.

Yanely: Yeah.

Amir: Keep your options open. And when you’re married to a job, you’ll know.

Yanely: I like that reference. And, you know, like that analogy because I do think it’s true. Tell us what you think, like from your perspective, are maybe the 1 or 2 biggest challenges that Gen Z faces in, you know, their place of work or their job or role.

Amir: A huge thing that I experienced was being heard. People thought because of my age that I didn’t have enough experience to know what I’m talking about. I’ve always had to work on my approach. There’s been so many times in a team meeting where, you know, I have given like an awesome idea, and you know, nobody’s heard it. And then someone else says the idea a little bit louder and then they get the credit for it. It is very frustrating. And I think it happens to people who are, you know, younger people who are, you know, maybe a minority, and that could be gender, race, culture, anything. Anyone can fall under a minority at any time. It’s definitely more challenging to have your opinions heard. But, you know, sometimes you can’t, you have to set ego aside. You know, sometimes you don’t need credit for everything. If your goal is just to get your idea actualized, plant the seeds. Plant the seed to someone who who’s who’s going to get the message across. It’s okay to be behind the scenes, you don’t always have to be in the forefront. Don’t don’t take everything personal. That you have… You’re dealing with older people in the workforce who aren’t respecting you, the best way to earn respect is to give it.

Yanely: I love that. In your experience, you you mentioned that when you first started working like you were the only one in your generation. So what advice would you give to others who maybe they just got their first job?

Amir: Yeah. So even if you’re working with someone who’s, let’s say, your mom’s age or your aunt’s age, you are going to be able to find something in common with anyone, no matter what their age is or what their cultural background is. There is a common ground that exists between all of us. You just have to find what that common ground is. And once you established common ground, build trust, work together. They were your age at one point, you know, you’re going to be their age at one point, you know so try to speak to them the way you would want someone to speak to you when you’re at their age.

Yanely: You heard Amir. How you act in the workplace matters a lot. It’s not just about your resumé and cover letter. It’s so important that you make a good first impression and build relationships with your coworkers, because you don’t know who might become your mentor or a professional reference for a future job application. And plus, it just makes for a more enjoyable workplace. But succeeding at work shouldn’t mean sacrificing your own well-being and your happiness. So this is my challenge to you: make a list of the types of jobs or career fields that you might enjoy, research some of the companies in that field using the tools and tips that Amir mentioned, then narrow it down to very specific roles or job titles that you would want to apply for. And look at the job description. What skills do you have that match those requirements? What skills would you need to work on or develop? And as a bonus, if you want to create a sample resumé and a sample cover letter that you would use if you were going to apply for that job tomorrow, go ahead and do that. You got this. 

Yanely Espinal: Financially Inclined is brought to you by Marketplace from American Public Media in collaboration with Next Gen Personal Finance. I’m your host Yanely Espinal. Our senior producers are Hayley Hershman and Zoë Saunders. Our video editor is Francesca Manto, and our graphics artist is Mallory Brangan. Our producers are Hannah Harris Green and Hayley Hershman. Gary O’Keefe is our sound engineer. Our intern is H Conley. Bridget Bodnar is the Director of Podcasts. Francesca Levy is the Executive Director. Neil Scarbrough is the VP and General Manager of Marketplace. Our theme music is, by Wonderly.

Hannah Harris Green: Financially Inclined is funded in part by the Sy Syms Foundation, partnering with organizations and people working for a better and more just future since 1985. And special thanks to the Ranzetta Family Charitable Fund and Next Gen Personal Finance for continuing to support Marketplace in its work to make younger audiences smarter about the economy.