A steel industry tug of war

Make Me Smart March 29, 2024 Transcript

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Kimberly Adams 

Under Pressure. Almost on the right beat. Hello everyone, I’m Kimberly Adams. Welcome back to Make Me Smart, where we make today make sense. It is Friday, March 29.

Nova Safo 

And I’m Nova Safo, in for Kai Ryssdal. Thanks for joining us on the podcast and on the YouTube stream. It’s Friday and that means it’s time for our weekly happy hour episode.

Kimberly Adams 

Exactly. And because it is Friday that means we’re going to do some news. We’re going to take a break, and then play a round have Half Full/Half Empty, but of course we have to start with our drinks. Nova, what are you drinking?

Nova Safo 

Oh, okay, I have a simple Sauvignon Blanc actually. a simple Sauvignon Blanc. It is from the California Central Coast. JUSTIN is the brand, as the label I’m looking at. I think it’s available in most places.

Kimberly Adams

Okay. Have you had it before or is this new?

Nova Safo

I have had it before. It’s a pretty standard Sauvignon Blanc. Very nice, you know very, you know like balanced well and yeah. It’s one of those nice simple pleasures you can enjoy in Pasadena on a, I’m not in Pasadena, but you know “little old lady from Pasadena. There’s nobody meaner.” That was the reference there, so no? Nothing? Sauvignon Blanc.

Kimberly Adams 

Little old lady from Pasadena.

Nova Safo

There you go.

Kimberly Adams

We have all the song lyrics.

Nova Safo 

Riding on Colorado boulevard.

Kimberly Adams 

No, it was funny. Earlier we were talking about Champagne Supernova in the sky because you’re Nova. Now we’ve got a “Little Old Lady from Pasadena.”

Nova Safo

We’ll have to keep the references coming.

Kimberly Adams

I feel like this is going to be like, the name that tune episode of Make Me Smart.

Nova Safo 

Indeed. And how about you Kimberly? What you got mixed up today?

Kimberly Adams 

So, I went to an event earlier this week with responsibility.org because we’re getting ready to head into Alcohol Awareness Month. And they were handing out these little guides of cocktails. And you know if you give me a recipe, I’m going to try it. So, this one was Garden Collins, which has non-alcoholic gin or any other white spirit of your choice. As anyone who watches the show knows, I think gin is the devil. I don’t even mess with non-alcoholic gin. So, I used my non-alcoholic tequila, lemon juice, simple syrup, matcha. Yeah, it actually has matcha in it. Your choice of garden herbs. I used rosemary, club soda, and garnish with a mint sprig and a dehydrated lime wheel, which randomly I had a dehydrated lime wheel. And it looks like this. Oh wait, my camera’s there. Look how pretty it is.

Nova Safo 

That is a very beautifully done cocktail. Looks gorgeous.

Kimberly Adams

Thank you. Thank you.

Nova Safo

But the moment of truth, how does it taste?

Kimberly Adams 

It’s good. I tasted it earlier, and I felt like I wanted to add a little bit of something, so it’s not fully non-alcoholic. I added some lambic that I got in Croatia. Believe it or not. I was on awful cruise with my family, but I did bring back lambic, which is a type of liquor.

Nova Safo

So, it made up for it.

Kimberly Adams 

No, not in the tiniest bit. The lambic is good, but God help me, that was a bad cruise. Anyway. So, I added lambic to it, but it’s really tasty, and I realized that I forgot to add club soda, but otherwise it’s delicious. All right let’s see what everybody else is drinking. Nova, I know you have the YouTube chat up. So, you look at YouTube, and I’ll look at Discord.

Nova Safo 

Oh, we have a Discord thing too. I didn’t know that.

Kimberly Adams 

Oh yeah, there’s a fan-run, fan-organized Discord channel.

Nova Safo 

Wow. We have Miller Lite. That’s not acceptable. Please go get something else. White sangria. That’s okay. We’ll will accept that.

Kimberly Adams 

We don’t judge people’s drinks here, Nova.

Nova Safo 

Oh, I judge everything. That’s changing immediately. So, koala league lily daiquiri. Tangerine margarita. Now that sounds lovely. I go for a Coke Zero with a hot dog. I’m not going to say anything about that.

Kimberly Adams 

Bob in Discord is drinking a Sangiovese that looks quite delicious. Let’s see.

Nova Safo

What’s the label?

Kimberly Adams

It says Lou Leo. I can’t quite, I don’t know how to read that. Bob, help me out here. All right, we should get to some news. Nova, what news did you bring today?

Nova Safo 

There’s this interesting tug of war going on around this merger deal between US Steel and Nippon Steel, which is a Japanese company. But until recently, I didn’t realize that Nippon actually means Japan in Japanese, so yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

Haven’t watched enough anime.

Nova Safo 

Is that right?

Kimberly Adams 

Yes, that’s exactly the reason why.

Nova Safo 

Well, there you go. Can you ever not watch enough anime? But um so, sorry. I lost my train.

Kimberly Adams 

Sorry Nova. How much wine did you have before the show?

Nova Safo 

Not any. I didn’t. Alright, so the deal is there’s all these factions happening around this deal. Senator Sherrod Brown, Steel Workers Union coming out against Nippon Steel buying US Steel. They want to keep it American. Biden has come out and said he’s, you know, very recently, I think sometime earlier this month said “yeah, I’m not so sure about Nippon Steel buying US Steel.” You know, this whole idea of us trying to keep kind of important industries, kind of, I guess in American hands. I’m not sure exactly what the objection is because there still will be based here. So, that has raised the alarm of the auto industry because the other candidate is Cleveland-Cliffs out of Cleveland, Ohio. Sherrod Brown, coincidentally, is the Ohio senator. So, they just came out with a letter, open letter to the administration saying, if you’re not going to approve Nippon Steel, you really need to come up with something other you know or consider the alternative. Their argument is, if Cleveland-Cliffs purchases US Steel, one company will basically own almost the entire sourcing of particular types of steel used in the automotive industry.

Kimberly Adams

So, basically, it’s do you want a monopoly or do you want foreign control of half of a monopoly.

Nova Safo

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So, that’s going to be an interesting battle going forward. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think that’s very interesting that there’s this kind of various factions forming and not necessarily in the ways we might think on that story.

Kimberly Adams 

That’s really fascinating. I didn’t know that.

Nova Safo 

Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. And the other story, Powell just today, you know, we saw the inflation number, which, you know, it’s funny, all morning and all day, I’ve been seeing people analyzing it in different ways. I saw some early analysts react, saying, well, it’s a little hotter than we really should be. Is June still on the table for a rate cut at the Federal Reserve? And others saying, actually, it looks pretty good. It’s still the core inflation figure is still inching down ever so slowly, and core inflation is more indicative of future inflation. So, any case.

Kimberly Adams 

Can you explain what you mean by core inflation versus the other inflation.

Nova Safo 

Okay. So, core inflation removes some volatile price points, like the energy industry, food costs, things like that, so that you get a number that is more indicative of kind of like where prices are moving without those kinds of volatile factors at play. So, it can give you more of a kind of clearer picture of what’s going on. And that still kind of inching down very, very slowly. And, the reason Kai Ryssdal is not here is because he was interviewing Federal Reserve Chief Jerome Powell, and they made news. The two of them. Powell and getting to the actual news I was trying to tell is today. No, no, no, no, it’s me. It’s me. I’m being long winded today. But Powell said, yeah, he interpreted it as a fairly good news. Today’s inflation report, and it’s the report the Federal Reserve pays attention to more than the CPI, the consumer price index, this was the personal consumption expenditures price index. I know a mouthful, but so that, Powell, today said, still looks like they’re on track to where they think there will be later this year on inflation slowly going down.

Kimberly Adams 

I was on a call earlier today with some folks from Poynter, which is this journalism training organization, and an economist from Brookings because we’re getting ready to do a session to sort of help reporters talk about how to cover the economy in ways that can, you know, more deeply connect with people. And we were talking about all of this sort of uncertainty and how even though there are a lot of economic indicators moving in the right direction, people don’t really trust it, right? And there’s all this uncertainty. And I kind of was, why didn’t kind of. I did. I said, I don’t really think it’s uncertainty as much as it’s precarity. Like people feel precarious, in where they are in this economy. It’s like, you may be comfortable, but you feel like one thing, one change in your life could derail everything. A job loss, a health scare, your childcare goes away, or you need to start taking care of an elderly parent, or you have a major problem in your house, or you need a new car. It’s like, you know, you have a good stable situation, but you feel precarious no matter how comfortable you are. And, yeah, Keith Ellison saying “History is repeating, feeling like 1992.” Well, that, you know, kind of relates to the story that we were talking about yesterday, where economic indicators were moving well, but people still felt the economy was bad. But in that case, the indications that, you know, the economy was strong were even stronger. And, you know, as the economist from Brookings was telling me today, she was like, you know, at all levels of the economy, things are looking significantly better than they were. And it’s just that a lot of the problems we have in this economy are just annoying. Like it is annoying to go to the grocery store and see that prices are so much higher. It doesn’t mean you can’t necessarily afford food, right. But anyhow, this is a whole other topic for another day.

Nova Safo 

But I love that framing.

Kimberly Adams

Yeah, precarity.

Nova Safo

Precarious. It really is precarity.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah, I don’t even know if precarity is a word, but it is now to me. Craig Hinton was saying feelings are sticky. Yes, absolutely. Alison Galinsky, yes, a barge running into your bridge, and you know, disrupting the local economy of Baltimore. That’s a thing that happens. Anyway, numbers and data are not feelings, and if anything, that I’ve been, that I’ve learned from the folks I’ve been talking to these last couple of weeks, is that feelings are what motivate people come election day.

Nova Safo

Absolutely, they do.

Kimberly Adams

Okay. So, my news is completely unrelated to anything, but I have been obsessed over this article for several days now. It’s from Aeon, and the headline is, “The cell is not a factory. Scientific narratives project social hierarchies onto nature. That’s why we need better metaphors to describe cellular life.” And wow, did this blow my mind. Because, yes, I have always thought of cells as factories. You know, there’s a part when I think about cells, which is not often although yes, because I know someone will inevitably bring it up. I have watched the anime series “Cells at Work,” which has two seasons, and it’s very interesting. It’s great.

Nova Safo 

That’s two references to anime in one podcast.

Kimberly Adams 

Oh, we’re barely halfway through Nova. Don’t worry. There will be more. But this idea that you know, it works, the cell works like a business. There are directions going out, and one part does this, and one part does that, and it’s all sort of part of this grand plan, kind of top down, whatever. So, I’m going to read a kind of chunky section of this, but it’s interesting. “The only problem is that the cell is not a ‘factory.’ It does not have a ‘control center.’ As the feminist scholar Emily Martin observes, the assumption of centralized control distorts our understanding of the cell. A wealth of research in biology suggests that ‘control’ and ‘information’ are not restricted at the ‘top’ but present throughout the cell. The cellular organelles do not just form a linear ‘assembly line’ but interact with each other in complex ways. Nor is the cell obsessed with the economically significant work of ‘manufacturing’ that metaphor of ‘factory’ would have us believe. Instead, much of the work that the cell does can be thought of as maintaining itself and taking ‘care’ of other cells. Why, then, do the standard textbooks continue to portray the cell as a hierarchy? Why do they invoke a centralized authority to explain how each cell functions? And why is the image imagery so industrially loaded?” And as the article goes on to say, because that is what is comfortable to a lot of the people who wrote those textbooks, who came up with these strategies of talking about it. They were men. They were in an industrial capitalist era, and they took the framework of these types of easy to understand, very in front of everyone’s face, you know, ideas to impose them on nature. And even though they’re no longer accurate, we’re still using those, you know, ideas. And when I first posted this in one of our channels on Slack that’s actually shared across the company, somebody brought up that this is similar to this idea of Lynn Margulis, evolutionary biologists who figured out that symbiosis cooperation is as important in evolution as is natural selection. So, symbiosis is right up there with survival of the fittest, but survival of the fittest is what we pay attention to.

Nova Safo

It’s what we all talk about.

Kimberly Adams

Right. Because that is kind of aligned with how the world, at least the human world works. And it’s just had me thinking all week about the sort of social structures that we impose on nature just to make ourselves feel comfortable understanding it. Anyway. I’m obsessed.

Nova Safo 

That’s fascinating. And it also can apply even in other areas, like the way we look at economic data, even like, we make sense of it through our own lens and experience. And that can vary so greatly, and people wonder, you know, well, if the facts and numbers are always the facts and numbers, then why do people differ? Because we’re not looking at them with the same eyes. Right?

Kimberly Adams 

Becca from Chicago posted in Discord, “I learned today that in order to make a memory, your neurons break apart their DNA. Cells are wild. Cells just straight up hijack each other’s powerhouses.” Again, amazing. Science is amazing. I love this. I love good research. And I’ve been thinking about this and sharing this article with everyone. I’m asking people, “did you read it? Did you read it?” We got to talk about it because I’m a nerd, but that’s okay.

Nova Safo 

Nerds rule. Yeah, that’s it for the news. We’re going to take a quick break. When we come back, we’ll play a round of Half Full/Half Empty. We’ll be right back.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay, we are back and now we’re going to play Half Full/Half Empty. Our wonderful show hosted by the more wonderful. I was going to say equally wonderful, but no, more wonderful Drew Jostad. Drew, take it away.

Drew Jostad 

You flatter me so. Are you half full or half empty on Beyonce’s new cover of Dolly Parton’s “Jolene.”

Nova Safo 

I haven’t heard. I saw.

Kimberly Adams 

Randomly I was listening to it just before the show.

Nova Safo 

And?

Kimberly Adams

I like it because I don’t know, I love adding a little bit of threatening your life into your music. So, she’s kind of updated the lyrics so whereas Dolly Parton was like begging Jolene not to take her man. Beyonce is like, don’t you dare or you’re going to catch these hands, and I love it. Absolutely half full.

Nova Safo 

I can’t comment. I haven’t heard. Sorry.

Kimberly Adams 

Kate Gilbert says she’s full on everybody covering Jolene.

Nova Safo 

We got a lot of half full. Yeah. On the YouTubes stream.

Kimberly Adams 

I mean, I really want Beyonce to cover “9 o 5.” That would bring me great joy.

Nova Safo 

Oh, yeah. I haven’t heard that in a million years. That goes back. All right. All right. Next one.

Kimberly Adams

What’s next, Drew?

Drew Jostad 

Next step, LinkedIn is testing out short form videos similar to TikTok or Instagram Reels. Are you half full or half empty?

Nova Safo 

Why? Why are they doing that? Do we know?

Kimberly Adams 

It’s the growth area. Why are we doing it? Because that’s where the people are.

Drew Jostad 

I can find the press release for you. “‘We are testing new ways to help members more easily discover timely, relevant videos to watch on LinkedIn,’ a company spokesperson told Axios.”

Nova Safo 

I don’t understand.

Kimberly Adams 

They’re discovering new ways to keep people on the platform longer. Look, short form video keeps people on platforms longer, boost engagement. If you’re trying to get young people and young people aren’t really messing around with LinkedIn. So, I mean, I get it. So, half full as a business strategy. Absolutely empty in terms of my individual experience with LinkedIn.

Nova Safo 

Half empty because we have enough short form things. We need more long form for things. We need to be more deliberative and think more. You know, yeah, half empty.

Kimberly Adams 

Why Amir. Why? Amir. Yes, says “LinkedIn has a thin veneer of respectability for work, and they will lose this so fast if they don’t.”

Nova Safo 

Wow. That’s tough.

Kimberly Adams 

It’s already gotten way more casual on LinkedIn since basically the Twitter masses defected over there.

Nova Safo

Oh, did they?

Kimberly Adams

Yeah.

Nova Safo

I didn’t know that. I didn’t know that was going on.

Kimberly Adams 

I think a lot of Twitter people moved over to LinkedIn in terms of regularly posting.

Nova Safo

Makes sense.

Kimberly Adams 

What’s next, Drew?

Drew Jostad 

Are you half full or half empty on owning vending machines as a side hustle?

Nova Safo 

This is a news reference. Yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

I have not heard this story, but I have a friend who owns vending machines as a side hustle.

Nova Safo 

Really?

Kimberly Adams 

Yes, I do.

Nova Safo 

And how’s that going for your friend? Do you know? Is it working?

Kimberly Adams 

The last time I asked him about it was pre-pandemic, and he said it was quite profitable. But, you know, it all depends on where you place them. So, given the extremely limited interaction I’ve had with people doing this, I’ll say half full. Sure, why not?

Nova Safo 

Half empty only because I’m half empty on side hustles. I don’t like the term. And I don’t like the idea of us needing to do that. That has sprung up in an economy where people’s main thing isn’t paying enough. I think it’s important also that when we are not working that you do things that enrich your other parts of your life, not just your wallet. Half empty.

Kimberly Adams 

What if managing vending machines is your full-time job, then what do you think of it?

Nova Safo 

It’s not a side hustle. I think then you’re just being an entrepreneur and if you can make it work without price gouging people, why not? Right?

Kimberly Adams 

I mean, I think that’s how vending machines work is charging way more for the product than well purchase. Anyway, price gouging is harsh.

Nova Safo

Yeah.

Kimberly Adams

Have you ever watched Abbott Elementary?

Nova Safo 

I’ve watched the pilot episode, but I haven’t gotten past it yet.

Kimberly Adams 

There was a whole, like, a sort of side plot where one of the main characters was flirting with a guy who was regularly coming to restock the vending machine in the teachers’ lounge. And he would make sure to stock it with the things that she liked in particular as a way of flirting with her, and it was very cute.

Nova Safo

Great. Another show I have to catch up on.

Kimberly Adams

All right, Drew, what’s next? Exactly.

Drew Jostad 

All right. Next up, McDonald’s announced it’s going to be selling Krispy Kreme doughnuts in its restaurants nationwide by 2026. Are you half full or half empty?

Kimberly Adams 

I mean, I’m half empty on the state of the nation’s cholesterol after this. But half full on the donuts personally.

Nova Safo 

Why would Krispy Kreme want to sell their doughnuts at McDonald’s? Wouldn’t that take? Wouldn’t that potentially be a business move?

Kimberly Adams

Distribution?

Drew Jostad 

Yeah, there’s a lot more McDonald’s locations than there are Krispy Kreme locations.

Nova Safo 

Yeah, I suppose that’s true.

Kimberly Adams 

I mean, this is sort of the thing when people from the South go up north, they’re like, where are the Krispy Kremes?

Nova Safo

Really?

Kimberly Adams

And they can’t find it. Yeah, there’s not as many Krispy Kremes up north, or at least there used to not be and so this, I mean, as long as the quality maintains. Although, I doubt McDonald’s is going to have the machine where you can like get them coming off the conveyor belt. Because if you actually go to Krispy Kreme store, there’s like a light outside that tells you when the donuts have, like just come off the conveyor. So, you know, when they’re like extra hot.

Nova Safo 

Well, isn’t that the whole point of the Krispy Kreme too? Like that they’re super fresh. And that’s what people like.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah, but I mean, I think if you’re at McDonald’s, you’ve probably signed off on your desire for freshness in your food in that particular moment.

Nova Safo

Oh, I don’t know about that.

Kimberly Adams

I mean, no shade. I know they have salads.

Nova Safo

Yeah. Yeah.

Kimberly Adams

But you know, I don’t think.

Nova Safo

And the fries are surprisingly good.

Kimberly Adams

Yeah, I mean, look, all of this stuff is chemically engineered for us to love it.

Nova Safo

And who doesn’t like a good chemical?

Kimberly Adams

If you want to make yourself really sad, start reading the articles in the books about all the ultra-processed things that we’re eating and how they’re designed to make us want to eat more of them, regardless of what they do to our bodies. Anyway. Half full. I love Krispy Kremes. I’m going to just say that.

Nova Safo 

Half full. Half full. I think, yeah, you’re giving people more choices. And we’re, you know, why not? Yeah. Is this our poll?

Drew Jostad 

Ready with the poll.

Kimberly Adams 

Everybody in the chat, get ready.

Nova Safo 

Yeah, ready to vote. We’ll give what, like a minute after the question, right?

Kimberly Adams 

We’ll see. We got to vamp for a while until we feel like we have good numbers.

Drew Jostad 

An investor letter on Monday, BlackRock’s Larry Fink suggested raising the Social Security retirement age. Are you half full or half empty?

Nova Safo 

This got a lot of attention this week. This story.

Kimberly Adams 

Was it on our show?

Nova Safo 

Didn’t he suggest raising it to 70? Wasn’t it 70? The number he suggested?

Kimberly Adams 

I don’t remember. Oh Drew, do you know?

Drew Jostad 

I don’t have it in Matt Levin’s story that came out on Marketplace, so I don’t know the number.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah, I think it was Matt Levin’s story that I was listening to where someone suggested that maybe it should be, the retirement age should be different depending on what you do for a living. Like if you’re a construction worker, and you’ve been jackhammering something for 20 years, perhaps you should be able to retire earlier or get social security earlier than somebody like me who’s been, you know, sitting in a chair for most of my career, other than when I’m like dodging tear gas and stuff like that. But I think that changes need to happen to social security regardless, personally. Raising the retirement age. People are living longer, but I don’t know, like 70 looks different for so many different people, you know?

Nova Safo 

It does. That’s the thing and it’s not just about the work you did, you know, there’s so many factors that go into it.

Kimberly Adams

Healthcare you had access to.

Nova Safo

Yeah. And, and the other element of that is there is a case to be made. There’s other ways to shore up social security, which is there have been some research.

Kimberly Adams

Raise the cap on the tax.

Nova Safo

Right, raise the cap on the tax and in the sense that the cap of how much income is taxed, that if you increase the high end of the income that can be taxed. We’re not even talking about raising the percentage of the tax. We’re just talking about taxing more of upper income earning people’s income, then you would make up the shortfall. So, that’s a tough sell for obviously in this country. In general, it’s hard to sell people on tax increases, but it seems to me that it would be a fairly paying less way to raise the tax. Whereas instead of what could be far more painful, which was asking people to work much longer than they can, you know,

Kimberly Adams 

Discord and YouTube chat are all on board with you when it comes to raising the cap, or there being no cap at all to social security income tax. And so, there we are. Seems like everyone, I’d say. Half empty 76% on raising the retirement age. Half full 23% because it seems like everyone thinks there’s an obvious better solution to this problem.

Nova Safo 

Sarah makes a good point. Yeah, considering we need side hustles to survive, we should not have to wait even longer to get retirement benefits we earned. That’s, you know, wrapping a bow there, Sarah. Nice job. I think it’s a tough call.

Kimberly Adams 

Is it though, right, is it?

Nova Safo 

Well, it’s tough to figure out how to, you know, make it palatable for enough people. Yeah, enough people so that Congress will vote for it because there’s a huge portion of this country where it’s a nonstarter, it just is, in terms of raising taxes.

Kimberly Adams 

Actually, I don’t know if there’s a huge portion of this country where it’s a nonstarter because you’re talking about people who are making over 100 and what? 60, $170,000, who would be affected? That’s not a huge chunk of a country. And yeah, I think it just happens to be the portion of the country that would be affected happens to be the portion of the country that has outsized political power, and louder voices in public policy making decisions. So, there’s that.

Nova Safo

Okay, there’s that.

Kimberly Adams

And with that, that is our show for today. We’re going to be back.

Nova Safo 

Wow, one way to end the weekend. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry.

Kimberly Adams 

We’re going to be back on Monday with more positivity and more ways to sort of eat the rich, I guess. In the meantime, if you have a question or comment that you want to share with us, you could leave us a voicemail at 508-U-B-SMART or email us at makemesmart@marketplace.org.

Nova Safo 

I mean, let them eat cake. You know?

Kimberly Adams 

No, let them eat cereal for breakfast. Make Me Smart produced by Courtney Bergsieker. Today’s episode was engineered by Charlton Thorp. Our intern is Thalia Menchaca.

Nova Safo 

The team behind our Friday game is Emily Macune and Antoinette Brock. Marissa Cabrera is our senior producer. Bridget Bodnar is the director of podcasts. And Francesca Levy is the executive director of Digital and On-Demand.

Kimberly Adams 

Brian Coleman says cake equals Krispy Kreme. Krispy Kreme is a cake, and the cake is a lie. There we go.

Nova Safo 

I have lost.

Kimberly Adams 

Me too, but that’s okay. It’s Friday.

Nova Safo

Indeed.

Kimberly Adams 

Everyone says cereal for dinner, not breakfast. That was the point. It was cereal for dinner, not breakfast. Yeah.