A warning about America’s industrial policy

Make Me Smart April 7, 2023 Transcript

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Kimberly Adams 

Hello, everyone. I am Kimberly Adams and welcome back to make me smart where we make today make sense. Today is finally finally finally Friday, April the seventh.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

And I’m Sabri Ben-Achour in for Kai Ryssdal. Thanks for joining us. Also for happy hour. As we like to call it economics on tap.

Kimberly Adams 

You have so many plants Sabri. I feel like we need to at least acknowledge that you are the plant person if that is going to be the background on YouTube.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

Yeah, well it’s either yeah, the plants or just my chaos room. So now it’s it’s I guess it’s both

Kimberly Adams 

How many plants do you have?

Sabri Ben-Achour 

The last time I counted I had like I had 100 indoor plants. And then there’s some outdoor plants, but I don’t count them.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay. Amazing. So what are you drinking?

Sabri Ben-Achour 

Oh, yeah. Um, okay, so I’m drinking a smoothie. This is literally like, this is literally like, this is like 70% of what I consume on a daily basis because I’m too lazy to cook. And because there’s no time to cook when you’re on like spot duty when you’re like doing the news. Like there’s no… I don’t even know what people eat. Ever since I started in journalism, basically, I have started consuming mostly smoothies. Which… That’s been like 14 years. What about you? What are you drinking?

Kimberly Adams 

I mean at least you are healthy? Well, actually, I was going to talk about being healthy. And so this month, April, is actually alcohol responsibility month. You know how everybody loves these branded months. And I guess it’s April because by now everybody’s kind of weaned off the dry January kick and any good habits that you may have developed then will maybe be fading a little bit. And so anyway, alcohol responsibility month, just a time and an opportunity for us to be mindful about our drinking. And so I have a mocktail today.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

Oh that’s so nice!

Kimberly Adams 

And mine… isn’t it? It’s made with alcohol removed whiskey, spicy cherry orange tonic, that one of our very kind listeners sent our way. And then ginger ale and some alcohol free bitters, which are actually a thing that exists. And so it’s quite tasty. You know, it’s not, it’s not a alcoholic drink, I’m not gonna say it tastes the same. But it does taste good. So there’s that. Oh, and so I was at this event at the Press Club a couple of weeks, maybe a month or so ago, from one of these groups that promotes alcohol awareness, especially trying to prevent underage drinking with teens. And they actually have this app where you can plug in what you ate, what you’re drinking, how tall you are, how old you are, how much you weigh, and it will estimate what your blood alcohol level is. And like

Sabri Ben-Achour 

Oh wow.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah, isn’t that cool? And so like, you know, you have your different limits of what you’re supposed to drive. Obviously, it’s not like perfect or scientific, but it kind of gives you a range. And they were doing like these breathalyzer tests because they were serving drinks, but only two because that’s a healthy amount. They were serving drinks and then they have all these snacks because they said contrary to urban legend, it is not starchy foods or greasy foods that help you to not be hungover or to absorb the alcohol. It’s actually protein foods.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

Oh, interesting. Okay.

Kimberly Adams 

So all that popcorn I ate to you know, soak up the booze over the years. Yeah, it did. Nothing. Did nothing. So basically… So yeah, anyway, so you can plug in what you ate and it’ll tell you what it did to your blood alcohol level. So yes, I have mocktail and huh?

Sabri Ben-Achour 

No, there’s there’s so many times in my life I feel like that would have been useful. But yeah, well, you know you can do that actually helps if you ever get hangovers? Is well, I would always drink, like a full glass of water be… try just drink as much water but have like six B, vitamin B complexes at the same time before you go to bed basically. And it worked. I would say it worked for it worked for a few years until my like body finally rejected alcohol in my 30s.

Kimberly Adams 

Hey, it’s healthier. That’s real healthy. All right, let’s move on to the news fix. We’ve been going on way longer. Okay Sabri why don’t you go?

Sabri Ben-Achour 

Okay. Okay, so I saw an article in Foreign Policy magazine by Adam Posner, who’s the head of the Peterson Institute for International Economics. And the title is “America’s zero sum economics doesn’t add up.” And basically, it’s a critique of all the well basically protectionism that the US is engaged in largely as a response to China and, and the supply chain breakdowns in the pandemic. You know, we we’re investing a bunch on ships, we’re trying to promote our domestic industries as much as possible, slapping tariffs on China. And he, it’s kind of a warning, you know, that usually many of these things have a real potential to backfire. When you start putting your thumb on the scale too much for your own domestic industries, it can create a lot of inefficiencies. It can, obviously alienate your allies, right? You know, we have tariff, we have benefits for electric vehicles that really, really pissed off Korea and Europe. And these are not the people that you want to be pissing off, you know. So. And, you know, he also argues that it’s kind of it can drag, productivity and innovation if you start interfering in the market. And he made one really interesting point, which was, you know, the US administration is sort of obsessed with maintaining technological innovation. But you don’t necessarily have to invent something to benefit economically from it. So he gives some examples of some technologies which we did not necessarily invent but we then jumped on and used and it created great productivity for us. Whereas other countries, even the ones who invented it, kind of lagged because they didn’t promote, you know, marketize… the commercialization of these things. It’s an interesting read. It’s, it’s an interesting read because we are in a moment where there is this emerging consensus around industrial policy and that we need to do it and that, you know, China’s committing all this industrial espionage. You know, trying to promote its own technological development. It’s created a lot of fear. Much of which is perfectly justified. But, you know, when you’re in a moment where everyone seems to be largely on the same page, that’s usually a time when you want to question the page, you know? Just a little.

Kimberly Adams 

Right. Nicely said. Nicely said.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

It was an interesting, an interesting critique that I think had some great points.

Kimberly Adams 

Huh, okay, yeah. I’m gonna go back and read that I haven’t had a chance to yet. So my newsfix is about the ongoing drama in Tennessee and I, if anybody’s like me, you’ve sort of seen this percolating in the background, you’ve seen the headlines, but maybe didn’t read too deeply into it. So if you go to the links on the show page, we have a couple of links from local journalists talking about this, which I always think is the best way to, you know, get the info. And the, you know, too long don’t read situation is after that horrible shooting in Nashville, there were three Democratic lawmakers who were state lawmakers who were protesting on the floor, and in session, about gun control. Trying to push for more gun control. And the Republicans who control that state legislature did not like it, and they voted to expel two of them. And that’s pretty unprecedented to expel members of state legislatures over protesting as opposed to some of the thing other things that people have been expelled for as pointed out in this Twitter thread. Hold on. Let me pull that up again.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

Yeah, it looks like they’ve only expelled like two people in 157 years, and they were for like major things.

Kimberly Adams 

So here we go. So this is from Halle, Holly McCall. She says “the last time a representative was expelled was in 2016, a Republican who sexually assaulted or harassed at least 22 women. The state attorney general investigated and confirmed. He was only expelled after he was pushed out by the GOP primary and considered unhelpful.” And so this is, you know, there. And then she says “This wasn’t about decorum. People who peed in chairs were convicted of domestic assault, bugged their colleagues offices sent racist and sexist texts with staff members, admitted to sexually assaulting high school girls they coached, were not expelled. And these lawmakers were.” We talk a lot about national politics on the show, on Marketplace. And it’s just worth remembering that when it comes to people’s day to day lives, and some of the decisions that really are going to impact what happens in your schools, in your communities, it’s really those state level politics and those local politics that matter. And, you know, we ignore what’s happening in our state legislatures to our great detriment. And you know, Vice President Kamala Harris apparently made a surprise visit to see these lawmakers today. And I hope this is not a sign of things to come in terms of a way to silence opposition in various levels of government. So that was a downer. Oh, sorry. Go ahead Sabri, what are you gonna say? No, no, I mean, it’s just like… it’s it’s just very telling that they’re… I don’t know, whatever sense of of comraderie that probably once existed in that legislature, you know, where it’s like, look, we’re all here to do a job, we’re all here to represent our constituents, like what’s, you know, I don’t know… a certain amount of forbearance amongst what might be like a type of community in a way. That’s gone. I mean, it’s gone. I mean, just think about the level of animosity in this state legislature that led to this outcome. I mean, that’s, it’s, it’s not a good look, honestly. Okay, I know that we’re already running kind of over on time. But before we get to half full/half empty, you have to tell everyone this story about your ceramics.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

Okay, oh my god. Okay. So, like two or three… I make ceramics on the side. That’s just my side, gig, hobby, whatever. And I teach it. And so like, two or three years ago, this woman contacted me on Instagram, and was like, “hi, I would like to buy one of your balls.” And I was like, Okay. And we’ve sort of negotiate on the price. And she was like, because this is going to be you know, this is gonna be in a movie. And I’m like, what movie? And so then she had me sign a nondisclosure agreement that said, Oh, this is going to be in Dungeons and Dragons. And I’m like, I don’t barely even know what Dungeon… Why did you make me sign an NDA? I barely know what Dungeons and Dragons is. What is this like, made for TV movie. It was being filmed in Ireland and I was like great some local movie, on local Irish TV is, is like, whatever. Anyway, so I gave him the bowl. And turns out the movie was the Dungeons and Dragons movie, like the actual movie. And I just found that out, like a month ago. And I was like, what!? And so we went to go see the movie. And I couldn’t even pay attention to the plot for the first like, 35 minutes, because I was like, “Is that my bowl? Is that my bowl? Is that my bowl?” And then finally, it was my bowl. And I was like, Ooh! And me and my boyfriend w were both watching and then we both were like “(gasps)” Like at a totally non dramatic moment in the movie. Like everyone else is just like a very non important part of the movie. But us too. We’re like, “oh,” And but it’s only in it for like two seconds. But that’s fine. I’m going to take it. Doesn’t matter. As I’m concerned, I made a cameo appearance in a major movie.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes, you did. Good for you Sabri. If you have a photo of that specific bowl, from before you sold it you should share it so we can put it on the show page just because I know everybody wants to see it. All right. At long last, let’s move on to. Well, no, I’m sorry. We need to take a break. We’re going to take a quick break and then when we come back, we’re going to play around of half full half empty

Kai Ryssdal 

Okay, this is half full, half empty, where we go through some of the news topics from the week and you tell us and we tell you, how we’re feeling about them. And it’s hosted by our very own Drew Jostad.

Drew Jostad 

All right, are you half full or half empty on Twitter replacing the bird logo with a Doge meme?

Kimberly Adams 

I’m so empty on so many things related to Twitter. It’s just all so childish. Don’t want to give it any more oxygen. Empty. Sabri

Sabri Ben-Achour 

Empty, empty. Empty empty. I have… I even as a joke. It’s just it’s like it’s

Kimberly Adams 

Not funny anymore.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

It’s not even funny. It’s just it’s just it’s just dumb. This is dumb.

Kimberly Adams 

This is dumb. All right, next.

Drew Jostad 

All right, are you half full or half empty on avoiding higher egg prices by decorating potatoes for Easter?

Kimberly Adams 

I’ve heard a couple of people talking about this. Have you heard about this Sabri?

Sabri Ben-Achour 

I have not heard about this.

Kimberly Adams 

So I guess people are decorating potatoes. I mean if you think about the logic of decorating a food item, a potato is I suppose as logical as an egg. Although my very Christian upbringing tells me not because you know in that environment they told us the egg, the different parts of the egg represented the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit because it was the duality all in one. Yeah, that was that was sort of how they related the egg to Easter because it represented not duality, but how three things could exist in one and so God could be the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit just like an egg can have the yolk, the white and the shell. Very religious upbringing.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

Oh wow. I had no idea! I thought that it was just… I thought maybe it was some like pagan holdover about some magic rabbit that laid eggs or something.

Kimberly Adams 

It absolutely is a pagan holdover. Yeah.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

I see. Oh, that’s so fascinating.

Kimberly Adams 

But um, potatoes.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

Yeah, um, I’m so I’m totally full on that. That’s very like, both.. What’s what do you call it. Both frugal and artsy. Because you could probably carve a potato, there could so much you could do with with a potato. I’m so so full on that.

Kimberly Adams  

Do you ever make the potato stamps where you like cut them in half and you carve something in it and then you dip it in paint and you make it into a stamp?

Sabri Ben-Achour 

I think I read about doing it, but I never did it.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay. All right. Yeah, I’ll go half full. Why not? What’s next?

Drew Jostad 

Half full or half empty on the banking crisis being a boon for cryptocurrency?

Sabri Ben-Achour 

I don’t think it’s that much of a boon. Like call me when Bitcoin is at like 60,000 or something. But I think there’s probably some… I don’t I don’t I don’t I guess I just don’t trust it I guess. I think it’s gonna take more than that to like revive crypto, honestly. So I am half empty.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah. I’m so mistrustful of crypto that I think I also have to be half empty on that. Yes. All right. I think that we are ready for our last topic which we can let our YouTube audience weigh in on. Is that right drew or do I skip one?

Drew Jostad 

Nope, you’re right.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay, cool. So everybody in the YouTube livestream get ready on this one. Sabri and I are going to withhold our judgment as much as we can. You may see it on our faces our bad. But you can vote in the YouTube live stream for whether you’re half full or half empty on the following topic. Go Drew!

Drew Jostad 

Okay, so the Super Mario Brothers movie came out this week so are you half full or half empty on video game adaptations for film and television?

Kimberly Adams 

(Sings the Jeopardy theme) Oh man looking for the poll. They’re gonna post it in just a minute. There it is. There’s the pole. Alright, so folks in the YouTube livestream can vote. I you know, I wonder what the Tetris movie counts as. Like Super Mario Brothers movie is obviously a video game adaptation, The Last of Us video game adaptation, Final Fantasy over the years. But I wonder like, if you’re talking about the movie Tetris, which is about the development of the game. You’re looking at me like I’m crazy.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

I did not know there was a Tetris game…. Movie yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

You didn’t know there was a Tetris… Yep. There’s a Tetris movie about how I guess it was like this Cold War espionage thing, all tied up in the original code for Tetris involving like some American huckster going over there trying to get the game and trying to work with you know Japanese game makers about the Gameboy and all these things. And it’s this big adventure. So, you know, I I guess it’s a video game-ish movie, but we have 122… more votes coming in. Everybody vote. We’re gonna wind it down. And 125 feels like a good number. Sabri you have full half empty on video game movies?

Sabri Ben-Achour 

I am half full. I’m half full on that. I’m probably more than half full. No, I think it’s cool. The Last of Us was great. Although the ending was traumatizing. But Last of Us is so cool. What else has there? No yeah, I’m I’m I’m I’m all for it. Yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay. I’m gonna go half full just because I tend typically find those kind of movies entertaining, even though I’m not a big gamer. I like watching the movies of them. So I’m gonna go half full. So yeah, that’s fun. All right. Well, thank you everybody for voting. And we have the results of the poll in terms of the rise of video game adaptations our crowd is half empty at 58% and half full and 41%. So I guess people aren’t fans of the video game adaptations?

Sabri Ben-Achour 

You know, it’s probably because we’re both not like super gamers. Because I bet if you are a gamer gamer, you probably have a lot invested in the game version. And you see the movie and it’s like “it’s nothing like the game. This pales, this is a shell of, of the masterpiece that I know and love.” That’s probably it.

Kimberly Adams 

All right. Well, that is it for us today. We will be back next week. But before we go, we have a big favor to ask. If you missed it, Make Me Smart has been nominated for a Webby Award and we are so excited about it. But we are not going to be able to win without your support. Right now we’re in like third place. And we’d love to actually win it. It means a lot. So you can vote for us by going to Marketplace.org/votemms as in like make me smart. And you can also, we’re also going to have the link in our show notes. So if you could vote for us, we would appreciate it. And thank you

Sabri Ben-Achour 

And you can leave us a voicemail at 508-U-B-SMART or email makemesmart@marketplace.org

Kimberly Adams 

You at least rock a little. Kai not even moves a little bit. Make Me Smart is produced by Courtney Bergsieker. Today’s episode was engineered by Drew Jostad who also wrote the theme music to Half-Full/Half-Empty. Antonio Barreras is our intern.

Sabri Ben-Achour 

The team behind our Friday game is Mel Rosenberg, Emily Macune and Antoinette Brock. Marissa Cabrera is our acting senior producer. Bridget Bodnar is the director of podcasts. And Francesca Levy is the executive director of Digital.

Kimberly Adams 

Nice timing Sabri. Well done. (Sabri chuckles)