Turmoil in the television industry

Make Me Smart August 18 , 2023 Transcript

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Kai Ryssdal 

I’m gonna figure out a different way to do it. Hey everybody, I’m Kai Ryssdal. Welcome back to Make Me Smart where we make today make sense. It is Friday, Friday, Friday, Friday the 18th of August.

Nova Safo 

Friyay. I’m Nova Safo, in for Kimberley Adams it’s good to be here with you all of you and and the happy hour and as you guys call it economics on tap. I’m very excited.

Kai Ryssdal 

We do call it that you know why? Because it’s our podcast now and we can do whatever we want. So that’s right. Excuse me. So.

Nova Safo

I love the rules.

Kai Ryssdal

That’s right. So the way things go on Friday Nova, is that the hosts in question, whoever they are, whether it’s me and Kimberly or somebody else, talk briefly about what we’re drinking. And then we do a little news. And then we get to half full half empty with Drew, so I just because I’ll go first, I’m drinking a stone IPA called FML. You can take that however you want. Stone likes to call it fear movie lines. It’s based on that three-letter identifier thing that they worked out for every point on this planet, which I think is kind of cool. Look it up if you know what I’m talking about, or we’ll put it on the show page. Anyway, it’s double IPA about 9% ABV, so eight and a half percent ABV. So I’ll be feeling alright, in about 20 minutes. Because I had yogurt for lunch and a piece of bread for breakfast this morning. And so you know, there’s not a lot going on internally with me. Alright, anyway. Anyway, what do you drink?

Nova Safo 

So I just checked the alcohol because I forgot to do that. And it’s 18 and half percent.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh my god, what are you drinking?

Nova Safo

So this is a Lustau Dry Amontillado los Arcos Dry sherry. I don’t know if you guys can see it, I recommend.

Kai Ryssdal 

Amontillado?

Nova Safo 

Yes, it is Spanish. So that’s what I know. And it was recommended by the LA Times shout out to them. And now I’m drinking it because Sherry You know, if we work in radio, we have to drink Sherry because do you know why?

Kai Ryssdal

I don’t know why.

Nova Safo

Frasier Crane. Every time every time his brother of course. Every time his brother comes in, he goes “Sherry?” “Sherry?” Of course.

Kai Ryssdal

I love Frasier Crane. Of course. I’m a huge Frasier Crane fan.

Nova Safo

Yeah, me too. Absolutely. So I’ve got my Sherry here for my Friday.

Kai Ryssdal 

That is awesome. That is awesome. So let me take a quick pass through the comments on the live stream. Let’s see Alan pipes is having some carbonated water. You got lots to do I totally get that. Ryan Coleman “FML indeed, Kai.” Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Robert Cox says I need to try the new voodoo Ranger. You know I’ve tried it. I don’t really like it. Melissa McCarty drinking a gin gimlet. Debbie Donovan says how fun to see Nova onscreen.

Nova Safo 

Thank you, Debbie.

Kai Ryssdal 

Let’s see, there’s some coffees out there.

Nova Safo 

She also said Sherry very sophisticated. You missed that part.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yes, she did. She said Nova is a man after my heart. There you go. So you’re sucking up to the life. Alright, anyway. Oh, Karl Strauss. Very good brewery. Very good brewery down in San Diego Oktoberfest. Truly wild berry with a shot of bourbon for Ryan’s Emmons. Anyway, there’s a lot going on a lot going on. Oh, Mary Lynn Baker, Cheerwine. Mary Lynn, did you hear me and David talking about Cheerwine when I went to North Carolina to work with him? That was a that was a fun little episode, fun little episode. Anyway, I don’t quite understand Cheerwine or what it’s supposed to be. We will do some news and then Dew will be here. Or at least I think it’s gonna be Drew because, you know, I didn’t read the rundown first.

Nova Safo

It’s Drew.

Kai Ryssdal

It’s Drew. Okay, good. It’s you know, it’s always easier when I don’t read the run that sorry, again, Marissa. But why don’t you start with the news. And then I’ll, I’ll bring up the tail end. How about that?

Nova Safo 

Sure, you know, I picked a couple of items today that I think, you know, kind of didn’t get a lot of play the last week or so. And but they’re very, very important. And they both have to do with streaming television and kind of the turmoil happening in the entertainment industry. The first one fascinating item brought by CNN because they have the Nielsen Data. And they found out that for the first time in July, cable and broadcast television, fewer people watched those than they watched streaming television. Well, actually, no, that’s wrong. It was below 50% for cable and broadcast together. And it’s never been that low before in terms of total audience viewing. So it’s a milestone and it shows that, you know, there’s that major shift happening. In fact, broadcast TV, 20% of the audience for the month of July 20%. is broadcast television. That’s astonishingly low.

Kai Ryssdal 

So so so let me ask you something else Nova. Because I saw this item earlier this week, and I elected to go sideways with it, which was another item in that story about streaming that I saw in the Wall Street Journal based on this Nielsen Data. Did you see the story about did you see the thing about “Suits”? The drama? Okay, first of all, 18 billion minutes in the month of July, which Oh, my god, yeah. But why is that the number one show on Netflix in the United States in the month of July here in the year 2023? I just don’t get it.

Nova Safo 

It’s a really dumb show by the way.

Kai Ryssdal 

Your lips to God’s ears pal. What can I do?

Nova Safo 

It’s, it’s really dumb. And if you watch it, if you binge it, they say the same things over and over my favorite line. It’s actually a great drinking game, if anybody is binging it. Every time they say, “we’re done. You and I, we’re done.” Like you take a sip. You’ll be drunk very quickly. So yeah, but yeah, I did notice that. And the second most popular was another former linear TV show. And that one as a kid show called “Bluey”. Yeah. Which was produced by Australian Broadcasting Company and BBC and licensed to Disney+. So very interesting that the streamers are picking up steam, but they’re doing so at least for the time being in the summer, when it’s the doldrums and we have a strike. You’re doing it with old fashioned linear television shows. I think that’s kind of interesting.

Kai Ryssdal 

It’s kind of amazing. Yeah, it’s kind of amazing. So that’s the Ryan Ryan Coleman points out in the live chat “KAI” in all caps. He says, “it’s because they are sitting on new shows as long as they can because this strike will never end.” Which you know, might not be wrong.

Nova Safo 

Maybe that’s the strategy. Yeah. You know, I don’t know a lot.

Kai Ryssdal 

A lot of “Bluey” love sorry, going on here.

Nova Safo 

Yeah apparently that’s just really popular. I’d never even heard of it. Had you?

Kai Ryssdal 

Wow. No, no, but what do I know?

Nova Safo 

What do I know? All right.

Kai Ryssdal 

Do you have another one? About the strike?

Nova Safo 

Yeah. So let’s talk about the strike. Because another item that at least I admit, I missed this. There are, it’s not a strike for everybody. There are exceptions, these things called interim agreements with independent production companies that are allowing kind of the smaller or at least independently produced films to go ahead if they agreed to basically all of SAG-AFTRA’s demands and by the way, we should point out, we are SAG-AFTRA. We’re a bargaining unit not involved in this in any way. But we are a bargaining unit of SAG-AFTRA. So, yeah, they agreed to the 11%, higher wages, the residuals from streaming. So if these movies that they’re making end up on the streaming services anyway, they’d have to honor that contract. So it’s very interesting that there is a subset of Hollywood that just wants to get on with it and get continued with business. And they’re willing to redo these terms.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, there is a little bit of business being done. But the reach of this strike is broad and widening. And Ryan Coleman in the chat might be right, it might, it might go on much longer. It’s already hit 100 days, as we all know, because we heard the stories when it hit 100 days, which was as long as the last one was so.

Nova Safo 

yeah, one thing to keep in mind, though, and in terms of broadening very true, because the the Writers Guild went to the SAG-AFTRA folks and said, “Hey, wait a minute. Some of these shows that you’ve given interim agreements to are actually you know, we’re striking against from the writer side” So SAG-AFTRA modified the rules four days ago said no more interim agreements, if the writers are on strike on that particular whatever it is. So yeah, but so far, something like 200 productions are moving forward, which is good. Not a small number. Not a small Yeah.

Kai Ryssdal 

Okay, show just let me break the fourth wall a little bit. So usually what happens on any given day on this podcast is that whoever the hosts are, whether it’s me and Kimberly, or Kimberly and somebody, or me and somebody during the course of the day. Excuse me, we look for news stories and we throw them in the rundown. And then we talk about them, and Nova being the good guy that he is doing what he’s supposed to do because he’s a guest and wants to impress the locals and, you know, went out and found some news items and put them in the rundown. Yeah, I on the other hand, because I am a jaded old fart did not because I’m just having one of those days. So I’m just going to kind of wing it here and I will offer two thoughts, one of which is depressing, and the other one of which is inspirational. So number one, and and the the a little bit depressing one is that I was on my way home from the grocery store just now buying my beer. And I heard Mary Louise Kelly talking to well, whoever the hell it was on All Things Considered about the grand jurors in Georgia, and how Georgia law requires that their names be on the indictment. And so be it. That’s Georgia law. But it it drives me to despair, that we are unable to protect ourselves from what we can all see is coming as these indictments and as this Court case, and as this election heats up, which is more vitriol, more ad hominem attacks, and more performative. Well, I can’t say this, because it’ll get us the E thing that Bridget and Marissa hate but BS about what is going on out there. And I just I honestly just wish more of us could speak the truth on our platforms, which I try to do. Because this matters, and it’s important, and I hate to be a downer. Alright, enough of that. That’s the end of that one. Here’s my item number two, and it’s really super inspirational. I am as this podcast knows, a soccer fan. And I will be up at whatever the hell hour it is on Sunday morning, LA time to watch the Women’s World Cup final. And I as I think I’ve said on this podcast before, I’m a soccer referee through high school and college. And so I when I watch these games, I watch the game of course, but I also watch the referee to see what the referee is doing because I like to learn from their positioning. These are very experienced people and they know what they’re doing. They’re the best in the world because they’re refereeing at the World Cup. The referee for the Women’s World Cup final is for the first time ever going to be an American woman. Her name is Tori Penso. And I just think it’s amazingly cool that an American woman is at the middle of the most important soccer game on the planet this year. That is very subtle. That I don’t know. I think it’s great. I think it’s great. Yeah, there will be an all-American referee crew. And it’s and it’s great. And it’s great. So that’s it. I think that’s cool.

Nova Safo 

I wonder how many future soccer players are getting formed during this tournament.

Kai Ryssdal 

I hope a lot yeah, I hope a lot and look, this is a this has gotten a lot of tensions. Yeah, this is a lousy thing to say. But you’ll understand why I’m saying in a minute. It’s actually this. So Tory Penso, an American woman being able to referee a semifinal which she did. And now also the final is a direct result of the American women’s soccer team the national soccer team going out early because the way FIFA does it is they don’t want any any appearance of impropriety or conflict of interest. So if your team is advancing into the tournament, that country’s referees get excluded from refereeing consequential matches. So because the American women’s soccer team is so good, American referees have not been able to advance in that tournament and do the big games. And now Tory and other American referees are getting to do it. And I think that’s really cool. That’s what I got. It’s really great. Yeah, so there we go. Oh, look at this. Tim Anderson. “She and I are alumni from the graduate program at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland different years though.” Yeah. So I hear that all right. That’s it for the news. We’re gonna take a quick break when we come back around half full and a half empty.

Kai Ryssdal 

Told you Nova that this was a little loosey goosey. All right, time to play half full half empty. It is our game, where Nova and I weigh in on thoughts that Drew Jostad throws to us. Here we go.

Drew Jostad 

Fellow Case Western Reserve alumni Drew Jostad.

Kai Ryssdal 

Is that right? Really?

Drew Jostad

Yeah, sure.

Kai Ryssdal

Do you know Tori Penso? You guys are about same age.

Drew Jostad 

Did he said graduate school? Because that would no.

Kai Ryssdal 

He just said, well, I think it was just Case Western. I don’t know. I’ll scroll back. No. All right. No, I

Kai Ryssdal 

Same graduate program. Okay. Yeah, her name is technically is Mary Victoria Penso. But anyway, whatever.

Drew Jostad 

Would have been my undergrad. But anyway, are you half full or half empty on beer made from purified wastewater?

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, man. So Nova really? So this is a story I did. It’s an interview I did. That if I could just give the shout out here. So all right, I’m going to break the fourth wall once again, because what the hell, we got nothing but time. So every day on Marketplace, the news hole is the content hole is 28 minutes and 45 seconds. That’s how long the show runs of that content is 22ish minutes. And sometimes we have stuff in the game that we can run. And sometimes we have to do same day interviews that we have to turn around in a big hurry. And our intern, her name is Sofia Terenzio. For her very first interview that she produced of mine, produced an interview about a brewery in Northern California, making beer out of grey water, which is not toilet water, but shower and sink runoff that has been purified and cleaned up in an effort to increase sustainability because as I learned during this interview, it takes 10 gallons of water to make a gallon of beer, which makes me feel a little bit bad, but not enough to not drink beer anyway. So, Sofia did this interview, we turn around ran it same day. And the gist is that if we want to keep making beer in particularly the Southwest United States where water is scarce, we’re gonna have to figure out a new way to do it. And maybe gray water is the way. So I did this interview with Devil’s Canyon brewery up in San Carlos, California, which is in the San Francisco Bay Area. And I think I think I’m half full I would I would at least try it. How about that? I would at least try it.

Nova Safo 

No way. That’s an immediate no.

Kai Ryssdal 

Really? ReallY?  Do you hate the planet?

Nova Safo 

Yes I do. I do, if I have to drink to drink grey water then? Yes.

Kai Ryssdal 

Have a sip of sherry Nova, come on. I mean Jesus.

Nova Safo 

I mean, just just maybe if they called it something other than grey water? You know, maybe it’s a marketing thing. I don’t know.

Kai Ryssdal 

Better than better than sewage?

Nova Safo 

Yeah. Maybe you should call it pre-used purified.

Kai Ryssdal 

Pre-used, yes.

Nova Safo 

Gently used purified water. Maybe that’ll work.

Kai Ryssdal 

All right. Well, I’m full, Nova’s empty. Drew, what else you got?

Drew Jostad 

Okay. PayPal has announced it is launching a stable coin called PayPal USD, are you half full or half empty?

Kai Ryssdal 

Nova, do you have thoughts?

Nova Safo 

Well, what do you do with it? That you can’t already do with PayPal?

Kai Ryssdal

Right, right, right?

Nova Safo

Half full. Or half empty. Forget it. Forget it.

Kai Ryssdal 

Exactly. Exactly. Look, I think, you know, I believe that crypto and these coins will somehow eventually be real money. But they are not yet. And until it is a until there is proof of concept in which you can actually use it in a real way. And I’m not talking about being able to use Bitcoin to buy a donut in Brooklyn, then half empty on all this stuff. We’re so far away.

Nova Safo 

Of course, if you try to use a Bitcoin to buy a donut in Brooklyn, you’d have to wait 15 minutes for that transaction to clear. So for those of you didn’t know, it takes a long time.

Kai Ryssdal 

Totally, that’s a whole different thing. All right, what else?

Drew Jostad 

THee National Park Service is opening a Museum of the American economy in the first bank building in Philadelphia, the original bank.

Kai Ryssdal 

So this aired today on Marketplace. The first bank building, actually a building built for the first bank in the United is the first bank of the United States, built in 1797. I learned today. And it’s an effort to be the first National Museum of American economy and finance. So of course, Federal Reserve Banks in the various regions have their own and there’s a national mint, that all that stuff. I think it’s cool idea. I mean, it’s cool idea and honestly, just parenthetically, more people ought to know about the First Bank of the United States. I’m just saying.

Nova Safo 

They should and I’m totally half full on this. And I will add that it was a little bit ahead of its time because Congress let it expire the charter for the bank and right, you know, and later on, we kind of recreated it but in a more sophisticated way.

Kai Ryssdal 

Well, well and you in between there was a Second Bank of the United States. Thank you Andrew Jackson, which went nowhere. But that’s. And elsewhere in the History podcast Drew.

Drew Jostad 

Set to open in 2026. So well, we’ll mark our calendars.

Nova Safo 

I’m looking forward forward to the Broadway musical about that. Oh my god.

Drew Jostad 

The Amazon mobile app now includes AI generated summaries of product reviews, are you half full or half empty?

Kai Ryssdal 

So this is a store that Megan McCarty Carino, did for us yesterday, Thursday on Marketplace about Amazon sort of using AI to collate all the product reviews, which of course we all know are genuine and real on all online. Yes. And provide a paragraph summary. I don’t, I’m not sure this is the best use of AI. I’m half empty. It’s all I’m saying.

Nova Safo 

I’m really torn. Because on the one yeah, because yes, it’s this is still a buyer beware situation in that you have to realize that the reviews you’re reading, you should do a little bit of homework and take it with a grain of salt. But if there are 5000 reviews, and the AI is able to tease out some things and give you a nice, simple, you know, simplified paragraph, maybe that does actually serve a purpose.

Kai Ryssdal 

So this is very interesting. So to the to the YouTube comments, Chuck Kleinknecht, I apologize, Chuck says, “saw one a little while ago.” Oh my god, I’m scrolling. Right. “Saw one  a little while ago. I hate to admit it, but it was helpful.” Kay Gilbert, if it’s actually accurate, if not empty. So so. Jin Pak “half full if I can read all the summaries. Anyway, but please get rid of the fake ones.”

Nova Safo

The people are with me.

Kai Ryssdal

I guess there’s some room for this. Well Nova, what’s it been like hosting? This will be your last time.

Nova Safo 

It has been a pleasure. You know, actually, um, you know, you guys should know I’m sitting in Kai’s studio and you know what Kai, this chair is really comfy. I could get really used to this chair.

Kai Ryssdal 

Don’t get comfortable. You know what’s gonna happen, is I’m gonna walk in Monday, and everything’s gonna be all fubar in my studio, exactly. And as the engineers will tell you, every time I walk in, and something’s out of place, because look, I’ve been I’ve been doing this job for way too long. Every time something goes out of place. I’m like, in my next contract, I’m gonna demand my own studio. But anyway.

Nova Safo 

I mean it basically is, because this is where PM happens. This is where the big show happens. Yeah.

Kai Ryssdal

That is true, that is true.

Drew Jostad 

Are we ready with the poll?

Kai Ryssdal 

Okay. Poll. Yeah, so Oh, so this is the poll. So no, maybe you’ve listened back and listened to the Friday. So here we go. This is the last one. All y’all get to vote half full, half empty. Drew’s gonna give the thing no and I are gonna kill about a minute just riffing on whatever it is that we can think of to talk about. And then we will share the results of the poll, Courtney or whoever is going to put it in the slack because I have not yet figured out how to deal with this on the YouTube live stream. And then we’re gonna show the results. So with that, Nova make sure you don’t tip your hand on what you think because as you know, the people are with you.

Drew Jostad 

So last week, autonomous delivery robot company serve robotics announced that had gone public this story from Quartz, are you half full or half empty on robot delivery?

Nova Safo

Wow, good one.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, you can just speak amorphously. You cannot, you cannot actually comment.

Nova Safo 

I’ve seen them. Does that? Yeah. Seen them around in certain neighborhoods. And not every neighborhood. I don’t know how they decide which neighborhood in which not, but I’ve seen these little cart things going around on their own right in different places. And

Kai Ryssdal 

So so. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

Nova Safo 

I was gonna say I saw it around the UCLA area. I’m wondering if it’s just college kids, you know.

Kai Ryssdal 

So that’s very interesting. So I did an interview a number of weeks ago with a guy who started a company whose name I can’t remember. Sorry. That, that started up, you know, these these sort of autonomous delivery carts, right. So they’re, they look like sort of little, little, sort of little red wagons, right? If you remember those from when you were kid little red wagons, except like on steroids. They have big wheels. And they have an insulated compartment on top. And they drive apparently autonomously, although there are drivers who are connected to them via the Internet. The reason I jumped on that is because you said you had seen them in the UCLA area. And in fact, the guy who started this company was at UCLA when he started the company. And now he works with a bunch of restaurants in around LA and I think there’s one in Chicago, and I think he’s got a pilot program in Houston, where he’s doing the same thing. And it’s all about food delivery without getting more cars on the road, more pollution. And it’s sort of a sustainability play in an area, which, as we all know, if you’ve used GrubHub, or DoorDash, or Uber eats, or whatever, is booming, yeah. So we’ll see.

Nova Safo 

I actually, I did get the impression that they can probably go short distances only because they go slowly. From the ones I’ve seen.

Kai Ryssdal 

Interesting, you mentioned that. Interesting, you mentioned that because this guy said, basically, most of the so, I went to an Indian restaurant in Santa Monica. And he said, most deliveries are within two miles of that restaurant. So it’s not like they’re gonna get on the 405 and come bring you the food, right. They’re gonna go down, you know, whatever, Lincoln or what have you, and get you your food within two miles. So so that is definitely part of it.

Nova Safo 

I’m surprised as to miles. I mean, some of them one. Yeah. The ones I saw at UCLA, they were really, you know, small carts, and they were riding they were actually on the sidewalk.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yep. Yeah. Yep. And if you go back, and you look, and we’ll put this episode on the show page, but if you go back and listen to me driving one of those things, it’s really not easy. I drove it into the bushes. Let us just say, let us just say.

Nova Safo 

Were you not a big video gamer when you were?

Kai Ryssdal 

No I was not. And well, they it’s so interesting. You mentioned that because they you they literally use Xbox game controllers to control these things. And if you are of a certain age, of which I am above, shut up. You’re not good at that. You know? Yeah,

Nova Safo 

I totally get that. Actually. I’m not gonna. Anyway,

Kai Ryssdal 

I’m just, oh my god. Told you it was a little loosey goosey. Alright, so Courtney, do me a favor and put the poll in Slack. And then we can we can let all these for people who are on the live stream go because I don’t even know what we’re doing here. I don’t even know what we’re doing. Here we go.

Nova Safo 

The suspense is killing me.

Kai Ryssdal 

You and me both what? I haven’t even. Did you see it? Yeah,

Nova Safo 

You see what I’m saying? Like,

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh my god. What? No, hold on. Jesus. All right.

Nova Safo 

I’m gonna announce it. If you don’t go no, go ahead. You go half full when 62%, half empty? 37%. What? I am actually a bit surprised.

Kai Ryssdal 

Well, look, I mean, it’s convenient. It keeps cars off the road, it gets you your food in a reasonable amount of time. It kind of makes sense. I will also point out and I realized I did this a couple of weeks ago. There are 200 and something people on this livestream and only 146 of you voted. What are you doing?

Nova Safo 

You have some slackers there. Those are the people who didn’t vote are probably also the people who don’t donate, you know.

Kai Ryssdal

Oh, man.

Nova Safo

You got to pony up, you know. The studio isn’t free.

Kai Ryssdal 

My studio. My studio.

Nova Safo 

This is the sherry acting out.

Kai Ryssdal 

Jayk get us out of here. Jayk’s probably like what in the hell is going on.

Drew Jostad 

You guys didn’t wait.

Kai Ryssdal 

We did. I think we did. Drew’s like, no, no, no, I think we did.

Drew Jostad

I gotta have some rules in here.

Kai Ryssdal

Drew, I mean, I mean, Nova what do you think

Nova Safo 

Wait for what?

Drew Jostad

Are you half full or half a little robot?

Nova Safo

Oh, I’m half empty.

Drew Jostad

You can’t give the audience crap for not voting.

Nova Safo

I am half empty on the robot.

Kai Ryssdal

How are you possibly half empty?

Nova Safo

They clutter up the neighborhoods just like those silly like Blooms and Limes things and the scooters. Children’s toys all over the place. Give me a break.

Kai Ryssdal

Also, hey, you can’t get off get off my lawn.

Nova Safo

Thank you know, the clutter up. They clutter. They’re ugly. And they clutter up the neighborhoods. And I think there is something to be said, for aesthetics, and peace and quiet and harmony and humans being on the sidewalk and not machines.

Kai Ryssdal 

I admire a person who takes a stand. I, I, I have nothing else to say.

Nova Safo 

If they figure out how to do it better. Maybe I’ll reconsider. But that is my stance.

Kai Ryssdal 

Ladies and gentlemen, Nova Safo. We are done for today. Nova you are unbelievable. You’re very good at this. You are very, very good at this. Sabri is in on Monday because no one’s got better things to do this time in the meanwhile, keep the comments coming. Leave a voicemail at 508-U-B-SMART. Email me, or email anybody actually on this podcast at makemesmart@marketplace.org We will get you on the pod I promise also. Well, thank you for sticking around on this one. Holy cow. Oh, holy bejesus. I don’t even know.

Nova Safo 

I think we did great.

Kai Ryssdal 

It’s that thing where you lose control of your own podcast. Make Me Smart is produced by Courtney Bergsieker. Today’s episode was engineered by Jayk Cherry. Our intern is Niloufar Shahbandi. Drew Jostad wrote the theme for, Jostad, sorry wrote the the music for our game half full and half empty.

Nova Safo 

The team behind half full half empty is Emily Macune and Antoinette Brock. Marissa Cabrera is our senior producer. Bridget Bodnar is the director of podcasts and Francesca Levy is the Executive Director of Digital and on demand. And they’re all amazing.

Kai Ryssdal 

They are all amazing. They really are. They all are. Except for the two of us, we’re just talking to the microphone.

Nova Safo

We’re jerks.

Kai Ryssdal

Easiest job on the show is what I always tell people. Oh my goodness we got through.