Women are driving the labor market

Make Me Smart May 5, 2023 Transcript

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Kai Ryssdal 

Right. Am I starting? Sorry.

Kimberly Adams

No, I’m starting.

Kai Ryssdal 

I get to hang around.

Kimberly Adams 

Ladies first man. Hello, I’m Kimberly Adams and welcome everyone back to make me smart where we make today make sense. It is Friday May the fifth, also known as Cinco De Mayo.

Kai Ryssdal 

I’m Kai Ryssdal. Thanks for joining us for happy hour or economics on tap as we like to call it. Today we got the YouTube live stream up and running. So if you’re watching us or doing whatever, we appreciate that. We had some technical glitches but we’re back now! Anyway also drinks the news fix and Drew Jostad is in house for round of half full half empty.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes, indeed. And sorry, I can’t believe that I didn’t think about potentially using you know the day to get a themed drink but whatever. And instead my drink today is a, I think what did they call it? Something savage. I just had it up on the thing, but it was in the newsletter. But anyhow. It’s got vodka, lemon juice, lavender bitters, and a sage syrup, simple syrup that I made with the lavender from my garden, which you can see in my garnish. So anyway

Kai Ryssdal 

That’s cool. That’s very cool.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah!

Kai Ryssdal 

That’s pretty cool. I’m doing it as advertised in the newsletter by the way, if you’re under the bottom of the make me smart newsletter, you saw what we’re gonna be having. I’m having Bunny with a Chainsaw, which looks like this. Kind of amazing from Paperback Brewing. It’s nice hazy IPA 8.2% alcohol by volume. It’s it’s very tasty. It’s very tasty. Let us it is called Debbie Donovan. Yes, it is cold in Kai’s shed. It’s raining and 50 something degrees in Los Angeles today. So it’s a little a little tricky. Matthew Caroll’s in St. Louis just sucking up to you there Kimberly. That’s all I’m saying.

Kimberly Adams 

I see that. I see that. And I appreciate it. I will take it. Yeah, my cocktail did turn out really nicely. So when I was making it, I felt like it was a little too lemony. And so I added more of the sage simple syrup to balance it out. But it turned out really nicely. I like it. Would make again. Somebody that Discord is asking about the hat that I referenced yesterday that I’m wearing to the steeplechase. And for just this reason I brought the hat. Standby.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, yeah. Wow. Look at you. That’s awesome.

Kimberly Adams 

This is the hat. It doesn’t really fit over my headphones. But this will be my steeplechase hat. Pretty excited.

Kai Ryssdal 

Are you wearing a gown or a dress? Or what are you wearing?

Kimberly Adams 

No, I’ve got this like big pink long, pink jacket that sort of like meshy and lacy thing and it’s going to be a whole like pink themed because clearly I can never let go of cherry blossoms.

Kai Ryssdal 

Are you going to be in the stands or you’re going to be on the infield? Because the infield gets all kind of muddy you know

Kimberly Adams 

We are going to be tailgating with the tailgating people so we’ll be outside. It’s gonna be great.

Kai Ryssdal 

No, it will be! It’s gonna be super cool. The Gold Cup in Virginia is super fun. Super fun. All right. Shall we? Let’s do some news.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah newsfix. You go first.

Kai Ryssdal 

Okay. Mine is, you know, spoiler alert, it’s about the jobs report today. 253,000 new jobs, the unemployment rate ticks down to a 54 year low, matching a previous low of 3.4%. Lots of good and we can talk about interest rates and Jay Powell and jobs and blah, blah, blah. But here’s what I want to point out. People are back in this workforce. The share of people in their prime working years, which is 25 to 54 for some reason, participating in the labor market is that 83.3%. That’s the most since 2008. I heard that chuckle Kimberly Adams, thank you very much. Here’s the real interesting part about it. And the really cool part about it. The rise has been powered by primed aged women, that is not a Don Lemon joke, who are participating in a rate never seen before at 77.5%. That’s really cool. That’s really cool. Women are coming back in the workforce, they can get jobs, they want jobs, it lets them have financial means. It’s really, really good. Now, there’s no comment here on what kinds of jobs these are, and some portion of them are probably minimum wage jobs. But women coming back is driving the labor market, which is is huge.

Kimberly Adams 

I’ve been thinking about this ever since we started discussing in the editorial meeting this morning, because remember, the big messaging effort that the Federal Reserve Banks did early in the pandemic, talking about how they were going to withhold tightening the economy, until they saw much better unemployment numbers for broader segments of the economy, including black unemployment, including women’s unemployment. And then they had to kind of just like, give up, right? Because the inflation was out of control and they’re like, “We can’t wait until other folks catch up in order to, you know, do what need to do with unemployment.” And now we’re starting to see that, you know, these jobs are catching up, but just as the tightening is happening, and so it’s obviously a lagging indicator. And I just wonder, are we doing it again? When just as people start catching up, the most vulnerable and the most left out of the economy, do we then start pulling back sort of the things that helps people return to the economy?

Kai Ryssdal 

Right. Absolutely. And look, Jay Powell says this, he said it in 2018 and 2019, right, we have to keep rates low, because only now, 10 years into the expansion, the longest expansion on record, only then, to put it in contemporaneous terms, were the people at the bottom of the income spectrum and the most disadvantage in this… disadvantaged, excuse me, in this economy are seeing the benefit. And now we’re gonna see what happens, right? The the Feds gonna either, you know, hold rates at 5% or raise them even more on today’s report. And we’re gonna see what that does to those people that Powell has said he wants to help. Sorry, I got to let the dog in.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah, I was wondering about that.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, that was Bonz. Sorry. Anyway, here we go. She’s in.

Kimberly Adams 

That’s okay. I’m sure we’re gonna get a visit from my other house guest cuz I’m a cat sitting and he’s a very vocal young man and probably going to bother Jasper.

Kai Ryssdal 

We haven’t heard it today, but we definitely heard it yesterday.

Kimberly Adams 

Oh, I’m sure we will. I’m sure we will. Okay, so my make me smart news fixes today have to do with weight loss. So, news this week, that Jenny Craig, the weight loss franchise is going out of business, they’re shutting down, like all their franchises. And, you know, it’s been four decades of this weight loss system. You remember all the ads from the 90s? And, you know, they were still going in some places. But financial news, I think NBC first reported this, that, you know, they couldn’t find a buyer, right? And why couldn’t they find a buyer? Because who is losing weight that way, these days, when you have these new medicines. You know, Wegovy and ozempic, and all of these things that help people lose weight so quickly. Also, the medical profession is starting to treat obesity more like a disease than a moral failure, which is a good thing. For sure. But you have these drugs that are incredibly expensive. And unless you’ve got good insurance, or a lot of cash to burn, and even if you have good insurance, good luck getting it through your insurance company to pay for it to you know, lose weight. You know, I worry that we’re entering this space where obesity becomes yet another marker of poverty. So on the podcast, This is Uncomfortable, Reema Khrais did a really amazing story once about how in America, your teeth can really signal how wealthy you are. Do you have money to fix your teeth or not? And it’s a signal of poverty. And now that basically, if you have enough cash, you can buy your way out of obesity? Is it going to become just sort of another marker of the haves and have nots of our society? Because it’s already more expensive to buy healthy food than it is unhealthy food. Oh my gosh, my computer’s making all sorts of noises today. I’m sorry. This is like my drama.

Kai Ryssdal 

We’re kind of not really hearing anything weird just so you know.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay, good. Excellent. It’s just like a weird backfeed. But, you know. I don’t know. It’s just like, I’m glad that there are now medicines and that the stigma is going away, and that we’re able to treat it like a disease and a genetic and a hereditary thing like it actually is. But on the other hand, the fact that these drugs are so inaccessible for so many people, I worry that we’re just creating another way that, you know, we end up looking at someone and see an income, you know, stratification. So anyhow, the articles I linked were about, you know, who is Jenny Craig and the person herself and some of the things that she went through in her life as she created this empire. And then the other one is about how there’s so much demand for these weight loss drugs that Novo Nordisk that makes Wegovy is actually starting to limit in the United States, how much of the sort of first doses it will distribute. Because I guess the first dose is a smaller you know, I don’t know dosage than the regular thing, the regular shots. And so you know, they’re limiting it to basically make sure people with diabetes can still get it.

Kai Ryssdal 

Hmmm. That’s interesting. Yeah, that’s such a good point about about obesity as, obesity rather as a marker. That’s wow. Alright, that is the news. We’re gonna take a quick break we’re gonna come back we’re gonna do half full and half empty.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay, we are back and this is half full/half empty, where we go through some of the news topics from the week and tell you how we’re feeling about them. Half full being that we’re feeling mostly positive, if we are willing to take aside and half empty being the opposite, obviously. And it is hosted by our very own Drew Jostad. Hello, Drew, let us get to it.

Drew Jostad 

Hello. The quote unquote godfather of AI has left Google and has serious concerns about the future of the technology. Are you half full or half empty?

Kai Ryssdal 

On on what? On him leaving? On him having concerns? Or the future of the technology? That’s a that’s a broad question for a quick response.

Drew Jostad 

You want me to pick or you want to just…

Kai Ryssdal 

I want you to pick because because you know Bridgette and the producers of this podcast kind of left you high and dry pal. So you decide what the question is

Drew Jostad 

How about you give me your view on the future of artificial intelligence?

Kai Ryssdal 

Okay, okay. Okay. I will do that. I will also though first recommend to your attention, a story that aired actually on Marketplace this afternoon from Matt Levin about people who are anticipating that AI will change things so much in the short term, that they are literally changing how they live their lives. It was totally interesting. Don’t agree with everything that was said. But wow, it was fascinating. Am I so wait, Drew the question again? Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

Drew Jostad 

Okay, so the this AI researcher has left Google with concerns about the future of AI.

Kai Ryssdal 

Right. Am I half full or half empty on the future of AI?

Drew Jostad 

Yeah, with I mean, if you if you think that he… that his leaving Google changes your opinion at all.

Kai Ryssdal 

Okay. Here’s, here’s what I think. I think if we can be smart about this, which humans have not traditionally been able to do with technology, AI could change the way we live. I’m a little worried about the short term and by short term I mean like 10 years because we were not good at the adaptation of technology in beneficial ways in the short term. That’s where I am.

Kimberly Adams 

I am gonna cosign on what Kai said. I’m a little bit concerned about the short term. I want to be optimistic that in the long term, it’s going to be positive, but short term not not so half full. More so half empty. But in the long term, I’m gonna say half full.

Drew Jostad 

Fair enough. All right, are you half full or half empty on a electric SUVs?

Kai Ryssdal 

I’m all the way in, I drove on home and I’ve been driving one for two months. I’m all in. It’s a crossover technically, but ya know, it’s… If we can get electric, right? And look, there’s some real challenges, right? We need infrastructure, we need charging stations, we need, you know, battery manufacturing, all that jazz, but, I’m demonstrably fully full.

Kimberly Adams 

So this is from that story. I don’t know if it was on your show on the morning show this week, talking about how American batteries for EVs are bigger than the batteries everywhere else in the world. And… it was on tech, okay. And okay, and it uses up way more resources, they’re heavier, and it means that you end up having to use… like the transition to electrifying it’s great, but we use up so many more resources because we’re making electric SUVs instead of you know, convincing more people to take public transportation or you know, more e-scooters or e-bikes or smaller things that help people move through communities with less environmental impact. And so just getting everybody to you know, drive an electric SUV is not going to help us all that much, as much as changing the way that we live in communities and how we move around. And so I’m gonna go half empty and electric SUVs. I hadn’t really thought about it until I heard that story on tech, but it changed my mind about those. I’m gonna go half empty.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, look, I completely agree and thank you for the clarification. It’s really interesting because… so when you get an EV you learn you will learn the vocabulary and the chemistry and the all this and that of charging the battery. Super quick story. So my car which is Ioniq5. Hyundai Ioniq5 has a 77.4 kilowatt hour battery. And that takes you know, depending on where you are and what kind of charge you have, it can take anywhere from, if you go to a super fast charging station, it can get you to from 10% battery to 80% of battery in half an hour. Right? Which is great. The Rivian truck which is a much troubled EV startup, which makes obviously trucks and SUVs, more to the point, has like 140 kilowatt hour battery, so give or take twice as much as mine. So can you imagine, number one the time it takes but also number two, the power suck that it is to charge that battery just because and I realize I’m being a little pejorative here, we’re Americans and we want big everything.

Drew Jostad 

Not to mention how much lithium it needs.

Kai Ryssdal 

Right. Exactly. Exactly. Anyway, yeah. Really interesting. So yeah, I’m with Kimberly, on this one. I am in my prior response. Totally

Kimberly Adams 

And it’s worth going and listening to Megan’s, Megan’s story. It it really has some interesting points there that I absolutely hadn’t considered.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yep. Yeah, it’s a good piece.

Drew Jostad 

Okay, half full or half empty on 2000s brands like Birkenstock and Victoria’s Secret, making a comeback?

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, this was Kristin Schwab actually on Marketplace this week, and they’re coming back. And she she did a piece about how it’s, it’s hard work to get a brand back. Yeah, Victoria’s Secret, too. And you’re like, wait, what? Look, we are American consumers, we want what we want. And if brands have to work a little bit to get it to us. Sure I’m half full on that.

Kimberly Adams 

I’m really torn here. So one of my jobs in college was actually working at a Victoria’s Secret. And it was a great job. And I loved my colleagues. And it felt really nice to like, have people come in and you make them feel really good about themselves. And that was like a very positive experience for me. But! The sort of what we know about Victoria’s Secret corporate and the messaging, and what that has done for the self image of a lot of women and girls is not great. I know that Victoria’s Secret has done this big rebrand and tried to make themselves more inclusive and more casual and all that stuff. If if it’s being done differently, then sure I’ll take it But I don’t know. I feel like I would much rather see what interesting new things like Gen Z and others could come up with and actually get supported and amplified, than to sort of drag back the brands of our youth and just rehash them for nostalgia. Yes, and someone in discord posted the very funny song by an artist named Jax called “Victoria’s Secret,” which is just an absolute takedown of the brand and it’s pretty funny. Yeah, okay.

Drew Jostad 

All right with Ed Sheeran cleared of copying Marvin Gaye’s Let’s Get It On this week, are you half full or half empty on music copyright?

Kimberly Adams 

I’m really torn on this one too, because I know that some audio music people whose opinions I really respect and value felt that this case could be really dangerous for creativity in the music industry. And that, you know, having too many limits on how close songs can be to each other, could be really dangerous for creativity. I get it and I want artists to be able to like build off of other art, but on the other hand, I don’t like the idea of like Marvin Gaye losing anything even though I know it’s not him technically losing but I don’t know. Abstain.

Kai Ryssdal 

I think I think I’m half full on Sheeran and being cleared for this reason. As I understand it, and I know nothing about music, this… both songs were based on a relatively simple chord progression that is the baseline for a lot of songs and if you want music to thrive you have to let relatively simple baselines as you were, not bass, but base lines right? Be acceptable. So I’m I’m I’m have half full on Sheeran being cleared.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay. Okay. All right.

Drew Jostad 

We got a poll today?

Kimberly Adams 

Oh yeah. Do we? Let’s see.

Kai Ryssdal 

Say it like you mean it Drew. We got a poll today.

Drew Jostad 

I don’t know.

Kai Ryssdal 

I believe we do. We’re gonna do it now anyway.

Kimberly Adams 

Right. Yeah.

Kai Ryssdal 

Even if we don’t.

Kimberly Adams 

Alright let’s do the poll. You can share your thoughts with us, even if you don’t get to click on anything.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, that’s right.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay, go.

Drew Jostad 

Okay. Are you half full or half empty on the coronation of King Charles?

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, my. Oh, my. Very good one. Oh yeah, so we’re doing a poll.

Kimberly Adams 

Well, apparently I have the hat for it as everyone has told me.

Kai Ryssdal 

You totally do. You could go to Ascot, the Royal races, you can go to the freakin coronation. You can go you can go anywhere.

Kimberly Adams 

The funny thing is that this is not even the biggest hat that I own. Nor is it my only big hat.

Kai Ryssdal 

Where do you want those hats?

Kimberly Adams 

I have them hanging on a wall in my closet. I got all these like command hooks and then little clip hooks that go on the command hooks. And so I can hang them all flat against the wall. And some of them are in hacked boxes.

Kai Ryssdal 

What’s a command hook? What’s a command hook?

Drew Jostad 

It’s a little hook that like adhesive sticks to the wall.

Kimberly Adams 

And it lets you stick stuff on the wall without doing damage. Longtime renters are very familiar with command because it lets you hang stuff on the wall without damaging it and losing your deposit.

Kai Ryssdal 

But you own you own that place. Right? You could put a nail in the wall. Boom, I don’t care. I live here, I own it.

Kimberly Adams 

This is true. But I rented for a very long time. And also, the sizes of the hats are weird. And I did not want to measure everything out perfectly. And so I could just sort of stick them up there. And if it didn’t fit, right, I could just take it down and do it again until I got it right without, you know, a million holes in the wall.

Kai Ryssdal 

Fair enough. Fair enough. All right.

Kimberly Adams 

People are really entretained thhat you didn’t know what command hooks are.

Kai Ryssdal 

What? (makes weird noises) Look, I rented for a long time. I rented for a long time. Okay, let’s let’s pile it on the answer this one. They have had enough time. They’ve had enough time.

Kimberly Adams 

I am half empty. I think we just need to let all this go. It’s just. If I were a member of the British public, I would not want to be paying for this.

Kai Ryssdal 

I would be pissed if I were a member of the British public much as were I Canadian I would be in favor of Quebec secession. That said, I’m a history guy and there ain’t no history like the history of the British Royal family. So while I will not get up and watch at 2am West Coast time, I will stream part of it whenever I roll out of bed and just check it out. Otherwise, I think the monarchy is anachronistic and and the British people ought to, you know, think about something else. That’s where I am

Kimberly Adams 

Okay. All right, let’s see, what is it? 77%, half empty. 22%, half full. So, yeah, I guess others are in line with our thoughts on this.

Kai Ryssdal 

I do wonder, my my general sense of all the coverage is the British population is relatively along those lines. They’re like, “Yeah, whatever,” you know? Only few are strongly in favor. Also, by the way, there are 220 people on this stream, and only 132 of you voted. So I don’t know what y’all are doing here. But come on.

Kimberly Adams 

So somebody in the YouTube chat, who’s Dagnome I guess is the username, said “we do something like this every four years. It’s not entirely different.”

Kai Ryssdal 

It’s completely different.

Kimberly Adams 

Say more.

Kai Ryssdal 

Well, sure. So, there will be a part of the ceremony in Westminster tomorrow, in which Charles Windsor, which is his name, will be hidden behind his screen and anointed by the Archbishop of Canterbury with oil that was blessed in Jerusalem. Okay? He will then, he will have written to and from the coronation ceremony in coaches of state, which are worth, my general guests would be some multiple of the average British person’s annual salary. And then he will go back to Buckingham Palace and do what? We have, every every four years. And look, I appreciate the symbolism and the history and the this and that. But the difference between whatever it is that’s going to happen in Westminster tomorrow, which I will watch part of, because I did history, is not the same as a democratically elected leader, in front of the population, swearing to preserve, protect and uphold the Constitution of the United States. Taking a walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, which yes is a parade and which yes, is I guess, randomly ceremonial. And let’s not get started on the imperial presidency. But then when he gets to the White House, he literally goes to work, or maybe next year, next election she literally goes to work, right? So not the same. That’s my rant.

Kimberly Adams 

That was a good rant. That was a good rant. All right. Um, that was an excellent rant. And I think it’s a good place to end too

Kai Ryssdal 

You do it. You take it from here.

Kimberly Adams 

I don’t have much to add. I agree. I agree.

Kai Ryssdal 

That is it for us today after the rant. We’re back next week. Questions, comments makemesmart@marketplace.org. Also marketplace bingo suggestion, we could use those. We’ll use them somehow in a fundraiser or some kind of game that will do at some point. 508-UB-SMART. Email works as well makemesmart@marketplace. O-R-and-G

Kimberly Adams 

O R and G

Kai Ryssdal 

And! A-N-D. For sure as hell somebody’s gonna go O-R-N-G that’s not gonna work. Whatever.

Kimberly Adams 

Make Me Smart is produced by Courtney Bergsieker. Today’s episode was engineered by Charlton Thorp. The audio problems were mine not his. Drew Jostad wrote the theme music to Half-Full/Half-Empty. Antonio Barreras is our intern.

Kai Ryssdal 

Mel Rosenberg, and Em-mil- Em… God Kai. Emily Macune and Antoinette Brock are the team behind our Friday game. Marissa Cabrera is in charge of this podcast. Bridget Bodnar is in charge of marissa. And Francesca Levy is the executive director of Digital and On-Demand. Oh my God.

Kimberly Adams 

They gave you the short ending music that’s not your fault.

Kai Ryssdal 

I know right? It’s like guys!