TikTok creators don’t want a ban

TikTok has a lot going on legally these days. Last week, it saw a fresh round of lawsuits alleging the short-form video app harms children. And then there’s the federal law that could ban the app if ByteDance, its China-based owner, doesn’t divest by January.

TikTok has sued to block that law. Oral arguments in TikTok Inc. v. Merrick Garland were heard in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit in September. The company is joined by eight TikTok creators as plaintiffs in the case, and one of them is Talia Cadet. She has nearly 140,000 followers on TikTok, where she produces lifestyle videos focused on her love of books and travel. The following is an edited transcript of her conversation with Marketplace’s Meghan McCarty Carino.

Talia Cadet: For me, the most important thing is the community I’ve been able to build. They’re the reason why I post every day, even when you don’t feel like making content, it’s like, no, I gotta connect with my people every day. And what I really enjoy about my community on TikTok is the conversations that we have every day, meeting followers in real life. They tell me the most amazing things. They’re like, “I just moved to D.C. Your event guides have really been helpful in me finding things to do, making friends.” A lot of my book content, people tell me, “I’m reading more because of you. I showcase a lot of my book club on TikTok as well.” They’re like, “We started our own book club,” and we get to talk about what they’re reading, and I give them tips for leading their book club. So for me, it’s the community, that’s the biggest piece of it for me.

Meghan McCarty Carino: So you are one of eight TikTok creators who have sued to block this federal law that could result in the app being banned in the U.S. How did you get involved in this?

Cadet: I’ve been following kind of like the singling out of TikTok for a while now. So when I had the opportunity to participate in this lawsuit, I’m like, it’s a no-brainer. And it’s really important that I lend my voice and showcase my community and all the amazing things that happen on my corner of the app. So for me, it was a no-brainer. You know, when the opportunity came about, I was like, “No, I’m definitely gonna lend my voice, showcase how amazing my community is,” and really showcase and humanize what’s at stake if this ban is to go into effect.

McCarty Carino: So you attended the recent hearing in D.C. What was that like?

Cadet: You know, for me, a very interesting experience. I don’t think going to the U.S. Court of Appeals is something that everyone experiences. So for me, definitely a unique experience. But I really feel great about how our legal team made the case for creators, for our First Amendment rights, and I’m really hopeful that judges will arrive at the right decision.

McCarty Carino: What do you make of the government’s arguments that TikTok is a national security risk?

Cadet: To that, I say we haven’t seen any evidence, we haven’t seen any evidence about this threat that they claim. So for me, it’s like, are you going to get specific about it? And also, if data privacy and security is that big of a concern, they would be passing data security laws that apply to all social media and not just singling out TikTok.

McCarty Carino: Part of the argument on your side has been that to force creators like you onto another app by banning TikTok, that that is a violation of your free speech. Can you tell me, why not just move to another app?

Cadet: I would say, for creators like myself, for my co-plaintiffs, TikTok is where our communities are, where our communities exist, and where we’ve been able to have the biggest reach, the biggest impact, foster the tightest-knit communities. And like you said, as it relates to First Amendment, we should be able to choose what platforms we want to use and how we want to communicate with others online. So the fact is, we shouldn’t have to be forced anywhere. We should be able to use the platforms that we want to use. Our users, our audiences, should be able to use the content platforms that they want to use and consume content where they want to consume it.

McCarty Carino: And what could it mean for you if the platform shuts down?

Cadet: I think personally, losing that community, that online space — and people like to trivialize online community building, but like I told you, people come up to me all the time, and they tell me how helpful it’s been to come across my platform, how it’s helped them read more, how it’s helped them and empowered them to travel solo, how it’s helped them get settled in a new city. That’s what’s at stake with this potential ban, and not being able to connect with people in that way would be devastating.

McCarty Carino: I want to hone in on something you said, that content on TikTok is often sort of trivialized. You know, this is kind of an app that a lot of people use for diversion, it’s fun. What do you want to say to people about what you see as the gravity of this potential ban?

Cadet: Again, I think people have misconceptions. People who have never used the platform, people who don’t understand the platform, they think that it’s only this one thing. They think that it’s young kids dancing and doing silly dances. And it’s so much more than that. Whoever you are, however you identify, however you live your life, there are people on TikTok who can relate to you, who can identify with you. And if anything, it’s a place where you can kind of share your voice, share your life, share your stories. So that’s what’s really at stake. What’s at stake is people being able to express themselves freely and to show up however they want to show up online and be their true, authentic selves. So for me, TikTok is one of one in that sense, where there is no other platform where you’re going to find this much diversity and types of content and be able to find content that speaks to who you are, your interests, your hobbies, your career, all of that. There’s no place like it.

More on this

Here’s a recap of all the arguments in this case from when we got into those back in September with Anupam Chander, a tech law professor at Georgetown University. He said the case is a unique one because it pits First Amendment concerns with national security concerns, the extent of which aren’t fully known to the public as the government has redacted much of its evidence in the case.

And we mentioned, a there’s a fresh round of lawsuits against TikTok over alleged harms to kids. Those were filed last week by attorneys general from 13 states and Washington, D.C., accusing the app of purposely targeting young users and contributing to the youth mental health crisis.

In reporting on lawsuit documents that were inadvertently unredacted for a short time, Kentucky Public Radio found internal TikTok communications that allegedly acknowledged the app’s propensity for addiction and harm. TikTok responded, saying the comments were cherry-picked and taken out of context.

And as Talia Cadet noted, the app can be a great place for building community. Well, on her TikTok you can find content like her recommendations for the best Black-owned card games and her monthly reading list, which is always prolific. In fact, Marketplace’s Meghan McCarty Carino first spoke to Talia for another story she reported earlier this year about how the romance genre has been evolving to be more inclusive than the cliche Fabio bodice-rippers of old.

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Let the TikTok legal battles begin